Retention: Fuck Buddies
Update March 2015
The discussion below is some of the VERY BEST I have to offer you.
I hope you are able to put it to good use.
We’ve discussed this on the forum and I have a Youtube video on it. But I’ve never formally wrote anything up on "retention" or maintaining fuck buddies.
Well, except for this- “Trevor and His 17 Girlfriends: Retention By Any Means Necessary,” a slightly different subject.
I'm euphoric as hell and that's when I'm at my BEST... so here goessss-
This is some high[er] level stuff and pretty much unnecessary if you are just starting out, in fact- you might be better off NOT reading it and just staying focused on beating your AA or bringing that 1st fuck buddy.
This is one of my favorite subjects and something I am able to do really really well. This is the type of shit that you can ONLY learn from lots of experience with countless women and observation of others’ success rates. There’s no goofball PUA that can even piece this stuff together, you really have to get intimate with a lot of girls to figure it out. I’m going to try to explain it as best as I can so you retain (or at least learn how to) ALL your fuck buddies.
If there was a “skill” I did best, this would be it. Better than picking up girls, better than getting busy from dates, better than enlarging my dick. Excuse the self-promo, I don’t usually do that (people already think I’m a douchebag), but I can honestly say— what I suggest really works. It’s powerful.
Video: “Retention” (keep f-buddies in uncommitted relationships)
Additional Discussion in Video (NOT IN TEXT BELOW)
0:00 2015 Updated 2015 Introduction
1:45 Video Begins (New Tattoo!)
3:00 Why do girls "sign up" for an uncommitted relationship?
4:10 Don't be/look like "Boyfriend Material" (Safe Nice Guy), girls only do relationships with these guys
5:00 You want to have "Boyfriend Potential" (Good Guy/Player) however
5:45 Quick "Scumbag" discussion (Quick hits, little relationship potential)
7:40 What gives you "Boyfriend Potential" that helps retain fuckbuddies? (See list on GLL)
10:10 3 SPECIFIC techniques to help retain women as fuckbuddies
13:50 Leave them wanting more
14:20 Give some emotional progress so they don't walk (full list on GLL)
16:35 The dynamic of top-tier retention
17:45 6 month chase MANDATORY RULE (Committed Relationship)
19:15 Determine the Relationship Talk (DTR) and how to handle
***handling DTR discussions
1. let the chick talk
2. just repeat what she says, make her talk again and tire herself out
3. [if you need to] say “damn.. well… I gotta say.. I’m umm.. Kinda disappointed with this. Stuff is going really good between us.. right? I think so. It’s moving along great. Right? Yeah I think so. I hate when it reaches a point when we need to put a title and expectations on stuff.. I’d rather it just reach that point naturally. I think it’s probably headed that way, right? I mean I’ve thought about it. It’s much more healthy to let things grow naturally, like we’ve been doing. This talk really upsets me cause things have been going so well.” (the girl will feel guilty and back down on the DTR shit)
you can also say, “in past relationships, we put time limits, rules and titles on things.. it messed stuff up, I should have just let things evolve, thats what I’m worried about. Things are great between us and they are moving along naturally, trust me on this. I don’t want to mess stuff up.”
Lets start at the beginning I mean, the very beginning.
When you meet her. The first 10 seconds.
Nice Guy, Good Guy or Scumbag?
Within 10 seconds of meeting a girl, if she's sexually available and interested- she’ll profile you. Even though we screen, it's inevitable.
She will either see you as a Nice Guy, Good Guy or Scumbag, or a combination of 2 of 3.
A lot goes into this profile.
- What you are wearing: Super clean Nice Guy? More edgy player?
- How you approach her: Pussy opinion opener? Or ballsy direct stuff?
- What you look like: Do you Get Laid? Do you not Get Laid?
- Your lifestyle: Are you cool? Are you a loser? Do you do drugs (a lot/sometimes)? Are you 100% straight edge?
There’s more to this profile than I can possibly list, you’ll think of some. I think you get the point though.
There’s a dramatic difference between the 3 profiles.
Below are generalizations not EVERY profile will be 100% accurate. There’s some cross-over anyway.
I’m 66% good guy, 33% scumbag, so said my ex-girlfriend.
Let’s jump on the first one.
The Nice Guy dresses like most everyone else that isn’t sexually active. Plain. No accessories. He usually is a bit outdated since he feels a fashion sense is only for girls and gays. Even if he’s good looking, he usually doesn’t have anything more than an average sex-appeal since he’s usually scared to stand out.
In short, the Nice Guy is boyfriend material, at best.
He is a safe guy that probably doesn’t Get Laid too much. He’s not particularly cool. He's completely predictable. He’d make a wonderful boyfriend and probably a good husband if he’s financially secure. He’s probably very average in bed. He’s probably unexciting. He’s not a challenge. It takes him 5+ dates to Get Laid if he’s lucky. He doesn’t date or fuck multiple women. Not because he's against it- he can't.
He’s probably judgmental because he doesn’t Get Laid much and rationalizes it by telling society that he doesn’t want “sluts” because they are dirty. He probably has plenty of friends that are exactly like him. He usually works for somebody else. He makes jokes, that’s usually his personally at his best. He might try to get girls into relationships in 2 weeks because he’s so insecure. In the near future, he can provide dinner and movie and perhaps a house, 2 cars, 2 children, a dog and a white-picket fence at a later date.
I DO NOT suggest you try to come off as a Nice Guy (boyfriend material) if you are trying to Get Laid. Frankly, I don’t recommend it even if you want to get a girlfriend. Nice Guys aren’t a challenge. Hot girls can Get Laid any night they want. The pussy is sexually available when they decide. Hot girls know that Nice Guys can’t Get Laid so they hold less leverage in the relationships.
This is generally what I suggest that you shoot for.
It is the best profile for retention.
Good players (players) generally dress with a little more edge than Nice Guys. They go fora “sexy” look more than “I want to fit in, please don't notice me.” They aren’t necessarily loaded with accessories or tattoos, but they have a few which, if nothing else- show that they are fashionably sensible. They don’t wear outdated clothing or stuff that doesn’t fit them because they know it’s important to Get Laid. They do Get Laid and the women they approach generally know it.
In short, the Good Guy is a player but he seemingly has a “good” (sweet) side that gives him boyfriend potential. Again, he has “boyfriend potential” but he is not strictly “boyfriend material,” big difference.
The Good Guy is a challenge. He’s cool. He gets lots of ass so he’s not needy.
At the same time, he has relationship qualities that would probably make him a great boyfriend too.
It’s hard for girls to walk on the Good Guy because he won’t tolerate it and he can go fuck other girls. At the same time, he’s not a total scumbag that she can’t show her family and friends. In fact, she brags to her friends that she’s dating him. He usually dates multiple women and usually has fuck buddies on a continuous basis until he gets into a committed relationship where he's faithful. He’s probably non-judgmental and doesn’t call girls that get more ass than him “sluts.” There’s no reason for him to be judgmental, he gets (or looks like) plenty of sex. He seems like he can Get Laid on the 1st date, but sometimes he ends up waiting if he sets off his “boyfriend potential” alarm too much or the girl is just not DTF. He can be a good or better provider than the Nice Guy, but it will take a lot of time and effort to convince him to stop fucking other girls and to settle down.
A challenge that the VERY HOTTEST GIRLS love and totally obsess over. This could be the dream guy that has his shit together.
I recommend working toward being this fictitious character. I have spent 5 years, non-stop, working at it.
*Sometimes a Nice Guy that is super good looking is mistaken for a Good Guy (player), since girls assume he actually tags a lot of pussy. This is generally shorted lived because he’s not the least bit aggressive.
(Scotty’s Current State)
This isn’t for everyone.
I do recommend that guys build some sort of ‘scumbag’ element into their persona. Scumbags literally don’t care what anyone thinks, after all- they are scumbags and they know it. They comes to rejoice in the persona.
Believe it or not, scumbags don’t all look like Scotty (tattoos, accessories. EDGE to the MAX). They come in various shapes and sizes. They are all very aggressive and usually pretty crude verbally. They are usually more comfortable with their profile than the Nice Guy and sometimes even the Good Guy.
The scumbag Gets Laid A LOT, even if sometimes he doesn’t look like he does.
His vibe, however, suggests that he does… A LOT.
He’s can come off very self-centered and confident, something that ALL girls like. Girls pick up on this vibe immediately. They know they have a scumbag in their presence and will decide in 20 seconds whether to fuck him because scumbags are generally really good in bed since they are experienced and masculine.
The flip side of it- the scumbag isn’t a safe guy and wouldn’t make a good boyfriend. In some cases, his vibe (and sometimes appearance) is something a girl would NEVER want to show her friends or family.
What do you see in THIS GUY???
The scumbag is the guy they fuck the SAME day/night and NEVER tell anyone about.
Because of this unfortunate situation, it’s hard to retain girls if you are a total Scumbag.
95% of girls are willing to become fuck buddies and risk getting heartbroken if the guy looks like he could be a good boyfriend one day.
The Scumbag won’t be, so he generally doesn’t tag that pussy more than 3 times.
The good news for the scum bag is- he ONLY/usually gets girls that are DTF.
The Scumbag Gets Laid VERY quickly, usually faster than the Good Guy. He’s a Scumbag. That’s what he does. The only reason girls talk to this seemingly wretched individual is to get fucked. For one reason or another he usually doesn’t get caught up in the emotional aspects of relationships too easily.
Sociopaths are a sub-set of scumbags, but they are different than the average scumbag. The Scumbag doesn't try to hurt anyone - he just puts himself first - ALWAYS.
As you can see, the first 10 seconds of your first interaction is critical to your retention. You might have to do some thinking. It’s okay, unlike most dating subjects, this one is worth some thought.
Of the three profiles, for strictly GETTING LAID, the Scumbag is the very best to be.
What Are the Fuck Buddies Looking For?
It’s important to understand this from the female’s POV on why they agree to become bed bunnies in the first place.
You might have noticed this in the scum bag profile-
- 95% of girls are willing to become fuck buddies and risk getting heartbroken if the guy looks like he could be a good boyfriend one day.
The vast majority of girls that become your fuck buddies, are ultimately looking for a relationship.
This is NOT to say that they were only looking for a relationship/boyfriend when you hit on them, they were very much sexually available (sometimes DTF), but their ultimate goal is to lock you down if it’s working out.
That is why the Good Guy (boyfriend potential/player) profile is best. He is sexy enough to pick up girls and has the boyfriend potential to keep them around.
The remaining ~5% are willing to become fuck buddies just because the sex is good. If you are well hung and good in bed, there’s a chance that you retain most, if not all of these girls.
Keeping Girls Around
(Retention, Uncommitted Relationships)
If you accept that the majority of your fuck buddies are ultimately looking for a relationship, then you probably have an idea of how to keep them around.
Slow emotional progress.
The process usually begins when the girl emotionally attached (and in some cases, genuinely sharing the emotionally attachment). In a perfect dynamic, she “chases” you and is sitting around waiting for your phone call. While this dynamic can’t always be created, there are definitely some rules and techniques that significantly help your retention success and your overall productivity/efficiency.
The biggest mistake guys, especially Nice Guys, make is trying to lock girls too quickly or pouring out their heart on the 1st date. It kills the chase. It doesn’t make girls work. It doesn’t allow you the moment after sex when the girl wondering if she’ll ever see you again. Remember- it should be the girl trying to lock you down, not the other way around.
You need give progress VERY SLOWLY. The girl needs to EARN progress. Got it?
This is where gets good.
I have very specific, totally applicable rules that you can apply your relationship that will exponentially increase your chances at retention and grip on the relationships.
Slow Progress Technique/Rule I:
Effective, Limited Communication
You need to keep the communication/contact to a minimum, but just enough to keep her waiting for your phone call.
- Only meet up 1 time every 7 days OR 2 times every 10 days.
- Only text or talk to her on the phone 2 times a week or 3 times every 10 days, for no longer than 20 minutes.
- Ideally, your texts/calls are ONLY to set up meet ups.
- You will make PLENTY of emotional progress in person, there is no need to give her free progress on the phone or text.
- Set up meet ups no longer than 72 hours in advance.
- Text 2-3 hours before the meetup to confirm.
- Since you have already had sex with her, you can set up the meet up via phone or text. I usually choose phone.
- NO LONG TEXT THREADS.
- NO LONG PHONE CALLS.
- NO WHATS APP, AOL IM, BLACKBERRY MESSENGER, FACEBOOK CHAT*, EMAIL, EVER
- Don’t answer her text if it breaks rule #2.
- Don’t answer her phone call if it breaks rule #2.
- Be busy, or pretend to be.
- On weekends, DO NOT contact her unless you are setting up a meet up. She should be wondering who you are fucking on Friday and Saturday night.
- Try to get off the phone first (thanks David DeAngelo!).
- Every time you meet up with her, have sex. This is important.
* You can leave one short comment on her Facebook wall or picture every 10 days. That’s it.
Remember - the girl ALREADY likes you.
Nice Gestures, A Little Goes A Long Way!
Slow Progress Technique/Rule II:
Effective, Limited Emotional Progress Gesture
Along with limiting the communication, you should limit the emotional progress to where she is always wanting more.
This is easy, so lets not overthink it.
It also happens naturally so you don’t exactly have to “do it.”
Basically you need to make ‘boyfriend-ish gestures’ every once in a while, maybe 1 out of every 2 or 3 meet ups.
Here are some examples:
- Paying for a small meal (or big meal if you are rich)
- Giving her a single flower
- Making dinner for both of you
- Talking in-depth about your childhood
- Talking in-depth about your future
- A more traditional date, an activity that couple may do
- A random kiss on the cheek
- Draw her a picture
- Develop inside jokes
- By her dessert
- Open a car door
- A long walk
- Shop together
- Buy her a inexpensive gift
- Insist on lighting her cigarettes
- Sleepover and watch TV in bed
- Have her meet your friends
- Throw a party WITH her (not for her)
- Go to her party
- Have her meet your family (mid/late stage)
- A sweet text (mid-stages) “hey i was just thinkin about u kidd”
- A longer phone call (mid-stages)
- A non-sex meet up (only mid/late stage)
There’s a ton of these.
With the exception of Scotty, nearly every guy knows how to play the boyfriend role. It’s the other part that we need to work on. If you have question about ‘boyfriendish gestures’, just ask. Ask me, not Scotty though. haha.
Slow Progress Technique/Rule III:
If you have less than 2 fuck buddies (or have the time) consider this technique, I call it “expected surprises.”
I learned it my first year in Los Angeles all the way up to meeting my goal of 4 hot women as fuck buddies.
Basically leading up to EVERY “date” you text the girl or tell her on the phone that you have surprise for her. Most girls get super excited and want to know what it is, don’t tell them. Do this over-and-over and girls will always be super excited to meet up with you. Don’t overkill it, remember- she ALREADY likes you and you still have to lean closer to SLOW progress.
The surprises can be anything, here are some that I have done-
- Mixers to make her favorite drink
- Inexpensive gift
- Protein shake
- Tickets to an event (inexpensive)
- Sex technique + video on the internet (I have this technique where I eat the girl while she lays on my face)
- Fun spot to go
- Naked picture of you
- New location to have sex
- New sex lube, sex toy
- Read her a children's book (I'm so dumb I can't read good)
- One piece of organic fruit
- Scented candle
- Hung Dick (if you haven’t slept together yet)
It may seem like “beta” behavior, it can be- but it can also be SUPER ALPHA EXCITING LEADERSHIP, remember actions/behaviors aren’t alpha/beta, the GUY is. It’s where the action/behavior comes from and the motivation behind it. Remember too, these are SUPER SMALL surprises, nothing that comes off as ‘gift’ – it should be something you both enjoy most of the time and be very inexpensive.
When I started doing this, I was pretty insecure. But it turned out to be a super effective technique and let me retain 2 high-level fuck buddies for an entire summer in 2008 while I still had AA. Once I got more girls, I didn’t have time to do the surprises, but I’d use the technique every now and then because I genuine like my fuck buddies.
You just have to make sure these aren’t coming across as gifts. The best way to do it is to include yourself in the surprise. If it’s a cigar, smoke it together. If it’s a flavored sex lube, put it on your dick and fuck her mouth. You get the point.
Slow Progress Technique/Rule IV:
Mixed Messages (optional):
Since the beginning of time, sending ‘mixed messages’ has always been an effective intentional or unintentional to make pussy chase (so long as they like you).
I consider it optional since the limited communication combined with controlled progress gestures automatically sends a 24/7 mixed message. The girl is thinking, “this guy likes me but why doesn’t he text or call me…” Non-verbal mixed messages are the best.
The most basic mixed message is to say something and have your actions reflect otherwise.
Natural players will often tell girls, “I love you,” “I really dig you kidd,” or "You are special, I love spending time with you," but then not call them for days.
The girl will be in a tailspin trying to analyze the situation with 4 of her little friends.
Basically after you make a nice verbal or non-verbal progress gesture you do something that shuts the progress down.
For example, after you have wonderful night of fun, emotional talks and sex with your girl, ignore her texts for 48-72 hours.
It could be even as subtle as repeating a question that she already answered, “What’s your last name again?”
But remember the mixed messages aren’t supposed to be MEAN. Don’t scream at the girl or fuck up her car. I don't do this too much unless a girl starts giving me problems, I don't suggest you compromise your ethics to retain irritating pussy.
Lets not harp on too many techniques, we aren’t dependent-delusional pick up artists, but this style fits a lot of guys pretty well.
High Quality, High Status Lifestyle
(and "Swag Factor")
Despite the powerful techniques and deep understanding of retention, the reason I (and ultimately you) will be successful at it with top-shelf women, is your lifestyle.
Admittedly, you could argue that only(?) reason girls agree to fuck me for 6+ months (and still return after that) is because of my overall lifestyle. Some of them probably know they aren’t actually getting anywhere with me.
A lot of my friends retain girls for "longer than they should have" because of their lifestyle. I took a long hard look at it.
It’s a huge factor, probably the most important.
Let me explain.
Through obsessive self-improvement, experience, social skills, my job as a personal trainer, access to elite Hollywood nightlife/drugs/semi-important/barely-important people, a respectable dick and shear luck- I’ve have built a pretty cool life.
Other than on my super sloppy drunk approaches, most girls (even the hottest ones) know that my life is probably cooler than theirs.
Maybe that sounds arrogant, sorry. I have spent tens of thousands of hours working on myself, I’ve come a long way because I was once undersexed, very depressed, anxious and negative. I encourage you to do the same, that’s why you are here.
Since chicks generally know that I’m cooler than they are, they want to be part of my lifestyle.
Some want to me try to get them an audition at some studio, some want my friend in the music biz. to listen to their demo tape, some want me to get them in great shape, some want me to get their friends into clubs and some just want to do whatever I want.
I’m happy to do stuff for the chicks AFTER I know they are loyal and have above-average integrity. It’s not “beta,” they already like me and know that I’m cooler than they are. They are happy to be apart of my life.
It’s NOT a “business” deal like when certain guys give girls (and their friends) cocaine to fuck, I extend opportunities to them AFTER I get to know/fuck them them a little bit.
The closer you are to the top 1% of guys and the cooler your lifestyle, the easier retention will be.
You should strive to reach your potential FOR YOU, not for pussy. But it sure won’t hurt you if you get there.
Here is another post (on a similar subject that ties together 'lifestyle' and 'social status') -