TOPIC: should an untrained guy do roids?

should an untrained guy do test for the first time to dramatically accelerate rate of muscle building?

we are talking about the usual beginner cycle (500mg test weekly, arimidex or aromasin if necessary, nolva or clomid pct, and HCG)

what are the pros? the best case scenario would be gaining some 15 pounds of muscle that are easily maintainable and getting closer to the genetic ceiling much faster than a natty trainer would.

what are the cons? maybe i would just gain a lot of water weight then lose a lot of my gains during the pct, doing damage to my natural test production, plus a lot of sides( gyno, losing hair ect..)

this is my plan for summer. i dont wanna spend 1-2 years hitting the gym natty to get the results i want. if steroids are the answer to cut those 1-2 years to 8-10 months, please tell me.

i have decent experience at the gym, started lifting at age 15, and by age 17 was benching 195 pounds 3x5, squat 225 3x8 with good form, deadlift 285 1x5, doing PPLPPLR routine exclusively.

shortly after that i had head surgery, and didnt do exercise for 6 months, i lost all my gains.

anyone have good advice?

thanks

Start lifting again tomorrow.

Train until you are at your old numbers. Muscle memory should get you back into shape within months.

Train hard for another year and double them then consider juice.

Im jacked and natty. Dont believe the roid hype.

^ok but he asked WHY

steroids would get him there faster. its scientifically proven

I think the real issue here is your mindset. You want to get results without actually putting in the work, and the truth is that no one who's actually successful at anything thinks like that.

You don't know how to train and eat, and thus will end up largely wasting perfectly good steroids and cash. Look at me, I used to slam a gram of test in my first year of training and barely made any gains because I didn't know what to do. I thought I did, after all I had researched exercise science and nutrition for 8 hours every day for months. But I failed to realize you can only learn to understand your own body through experience. I'm still very much learning how to lift after 4 years of training.

It can take years to recover your natty test after just a single cycle. Prostate and heart hypertrophy, blood pressure, acne, loss of libido, post-cycle depression, gyno and hair loss are just some of the complications you could have.

I agree with BIB to an extent. Yes, test will help you get to your goal faster. No doubt about that. Probably cut your muscle building timeframe in half.

The cons are as you mentioned but if you know how to dose, PCT, use on cycle therapy, and take proper time off cycle (3-4 months), then you should be okay long term. But the risks are always there as Terminator mentioned.

I am more experienced with SARMs and pro hormones. I used SARMs to get back in shape at beginning of 2016 after working out sparingly for the last 2 months of 2015 and eating like shit over that timeframe. The difference is it was not my first go around.

I think beginners should already be in their regime when the start using anabolics for the first time. This will just maximize your chances for success.

Also your discipline and mindset might be an issue. You want to use anabolics to amplify the results of the work that you would be putting in regardless of whatever compounds or supplements you are taking. Not to cut corners.

The latter mindset is almost a guarantee for failure. Anabolic use or not. I am not saying this is way you think but that is how it comes off. You seem pretty intelligent, I just want to make sure you do not shoot yourself in the foot here.

I would start working your way back into the gym. After a couple months of serious training, evaluate where you are. Then you can really make decision on whether to start using anabolics. This puts of the odds of success in your favor.

Hope this helps.

Ray

Your money would be better invested in hiring a knowledgable coach who can do your diet and training for a year or so and you can learn everything you need to know from him as a natural so you don't need to spend 100000000 hours learning it from random forums on the internet.

That is what I would do if I had to go back to being an uneducated newbie.

After a year of doing everything 100% on point as a natural, you will be in a position where you're primed to learn about AAS and then decide if you want to jump on a cycle, because you will already have your diet and training are in check.

It's laughable when guys will post stupid questions asking drug advice and then they will end their post with "assuming my diet and training are in check" because they know nobody will want to give them advice given that they're a newbie. But they NEVER actually have their "diet and training in check" whatsoever.

Don't be that guy. You will literally get nowhere saucing if you don't know how to diet or train at all.

P.S. I'm not saying that you are acting like "that guy" ^ I'm saying don't fall in the trap of becoming "that guy."

I'd find someone who looks how you want to look and has the physique to back everything he says up, and the knowledge, and then hire him and absorb his knowledge like a sponge. This will expedite EVERYTHING soooooooo much.

I learned everything I learned through excessive forum and internet scouring for countless hours. I probably could've cut my learning time 1/10 if I just fucking hired someone knowledgeable off the bat.

I've used steroids and I highly regret it. You can have a quite good body without it. Focus on being lean with some muscle mass.

thanks

In order for steroids to be truly effective you have to be able to train VERY hard and consistently. That ability only comes after you are no longer a newb.
That may not make sense but think of it this way, because it's true: when you get on a serious training program you will be training not just your muscles but you mind-muscle connection, and only training this over time will get you to the point where you can actually train hard.
This happens on a physiological level (muscle fiber recruitment ability-- training increases ability to recruit more muscle fibers in a given muscle at a given time), and a psychological level (your mind becomes hardened to the effort and pain of training and you redefine what "hard" and "effort" actually means to you).

As a newb, consider good sleep and red meat your steroids. For the period of getting your newbie gains they are actually more effective than steroids will be later on.

absolutely not. There is no excuse or reason for someone with no experience to do gear.

You need to learn your body, how to diet, how to train. Steroids are not a short cut, they are an option to help you surpass your genetic potential.

Fuck, you could be genetically gifted and get a great body without gear. If you run gear right now you have maximum chance for negative side effects and a very high chance of not benefiting from them at all.

@Mokele/Seige

^Except for that's not true.

In this study guys that took steroids BUT DIDN'T WORK OUT AT ALL gained more muscle than guys who worked out natty:

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

All these arguments that taking steroids won't be any faster are COMPLETELY false.

Training on test is 100% better than training natty if you're talking about "which way yields the best results". I'd like to see anyone contest that point with actual evidence.

It's been proven scientifically that even if you don't train as well, you'll still gain a fuckton of muscle on steroids.

I'm standing by my theory that the reason guys say not to cycle until you have experience is because they're jealous/upset that newbies can "cheat" their way to faster gains.

Bad Idea Bear wrote: @Mokele/Seige

^Except for that's not true.

In this study guys that took steroids BUT DIDN'T WORK OUT AT ALL gained more muscle than guys who worked out natty:

www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

All these arguments that taking steroids won't be any faster are COMPLETELY false.

Training on test is 100% better than training natty if you're talking about "which way yields the best results". I'd like to see anyone contest that point with actual evidence.

It's been proven scientifically that even if you don't train as well, you'll still gain a fuckton of muscle on steroids.

I'm standing by my theory that the reason guys say not to cycle until you have experience is because they're jealous/upset that newbies can "cheat" their way to faster gains.

There are also studies showing that a stimulant called methamphetamine improves cognitive and physical performance, and my experience with the substance in question agrees with that. Yet I would never advise anyone to use it, and it's not out of jealousy. There's very little research conducted on bodybuilders but there is a vast amount of experienced lifters and coaches. We have no idea about the quality of the exercise protocol used in this particular study. If you hire a bodybuilding coach whose living depends on making you as big and ripped as possible, then you would assume him to pump you full of juice, right? Then why did my coach insist on taking me OFF juice despite the fact that I explained to him that I don't care about my health? The earlier you start taking steroids the worse your gains will be long term due to adaptation. On every cycle you have to use a higher dose in order to keep making gains. Thus it's obvious that it's wiser to make as much gains as you can natty before even starting in order to maximize the size to which you can get.

I want to help. What I do not want is someone repeating the same mistakes that I made, hence is why I do not recommend steroids for beginners. At the time I thought it was great and hyped my gains on here as well. Oh how I wish I could go back in time and tell myself how retarded I was But of course I wouldn't have believed it back then, I was only listening to theories that were in line with my want to use steroids.

It's good to have different opinions and theories and it makes for interesting conversation. I know very little, I'm known to make bad decisions and I have problems. But I do know MY story, and want to share my experience:

If I thought that for untrained trainees steroids were the best way to make you big, I would say so.