TOPIC: Handling a date with a 17 y/o... and why I am grateful for my gf/fuckbuddies.

Posting this here to give order to my thoughts and also to receive comments and further analyses from you sharp guys out there.


I thought she wasn't playing games because she made it very clear that she wanted to meet me on a date. And I told her as much.

The conversation was good, although she was a bit too passive for my liking. It was clear that she was trying to "be a certain way", which is understandable for a 17 year old. I told her that I was quite impressed that she didn't "pretend not to like me" like some other girls would, that she agreed immediately to a date when we met.

Then I tried to kiss her. "I thought we were just friends."

"Uh oh", I thought. Time to wake up and enable game mode.

A little while later I ask "so when I said you were beautiful and would like to ask you out on a date, and you said yes, you thought we were just gonna be friends?"

She had to admit it there. We sat down a bench and distracted each other from the main topic (why go on a date with me if you're not really into me? or are you?) by tickling each other. We do understand each other, well enough to be really good friends. But obviously that's not what I'm there for.

She started by talking about our age difference (I'm 31, she's 17). Somehow I just know, nowadays, that the age argument is a distraction. If she likes me enough, a huge age difference is a Romeo and Juliet barrier to be overcome "with the power of love". If she doesn't, it's a nice excuse to use. I wonder how I came to know this? I would have capitulated before.

So I said "okay".

She seemed a bit flummoxed by this, evidently expecting me to defend myself with "age is not a big deal bla bla bla".

At one point she asked "why did you ask me out?" I answered because I was trying to not avoid beautiful women, and hey that's a nice dress! and that's how I noticed her. I asked her "why did you agree to go out with me?" And she replied "because you seemed intelligent and kind" - which I have to say, I think only a certain type of women (the demure, quiet types) interpret my behaviour that way. I have an impression other types interpret my behaviour as something undesirable, perhaps neediness.

She was very beautiful. Youth, of course, was a huge factor, but also her radiance, the way she held herself, had a surprisingly mature air that made me think she was 25. So I asked her, she mentioned before that she had had a hard life - what was all that about?

She opened up and told me about her family's divorce (her dad left the family for another woman), how that affected her, what that was like, and how that drove her to find strength in religion.

This is a good opportunity to get real, to get past the small talk. I tell her about myself, how I would always turn away from a girl as attractive as her before, and how I trained myself through years of cold approach and GLL, and my open relationship, and how I couldn't have gotten the strength to ask her out if it weren't for this open relationship + fuckbuddy (thank you all, wonderful ladies!).

And I tell her about one of my exes whose family also divorced when she was young. I tell her about how it seemed there was no way to reach her heart, and instead of men she had pinned her hopes on dogs and her baby. And that she was wasting her natural beauty (she was a pinup model). With her youth, her maturity at such a young age, I would love to guide her and help her avoid such pitfalls. "It's up to you."

We walked in silence. She still didn't know. In fact, she didn't know what she wanted. Well, that's normal of women that age. Oh well, I guess this means she probably doesn't want me!

There was a lot to process from her story. For a moment, the silence was comfortable, the understanding mutual. We squeezed each others' hands tightly. I tried to kiss her again - the second time she let me, but the third time she refused again. She said she was keeping herself safe, and needed time. Her bus came. Time will tell if this is another excuse!

Perhaps I could have asked her out if I had nobody else. But I could not have handled the situation as well as this if it weren't for my girlfriend and fuckbuddy (again, so many thanks).

Fundamentally, it's because I was overflowing with value that I wanted to give to her, and not take. And I could only do that because others chose to give me value too. The way to not fuck it up with a girl you really like is to tell her, from a position of wanting to give her value, that you like her. Not "I really want to be with you" which is just taking value.

Even though I hadn't gotten the girl, I have to say, I was very happy that I got this far. If she ever decides to try on me, she will write.

I don't want to come off as a dick but from the way you write this along with the very large age gap, and at least from my perspective, you kinda sound like a pedo.

In my opinion, if a very young girl wants to have sex with a very old man that's fine, but in this case there's a level of vulnerability on her part that would make sex not just attraction based, but rather vulnerability based and it would make it seem like you took advantage of that vulnerability if you do end up having sex with her.

If it's not illegal then do what you want, but you probably won't be doing this girl any favors by sleeping with her considering, from what you posted, she's very clearly looking for a fatherly figure to heal her daddy issues.

For the record, if I were 31 and had the chance to have sex with a 17 yo I probably would (at least from my younger perspective), but I would keep the whole interaction sexual, and wouldn't be pushing her emotional buttons.

Shift the age ranges up, and you wouldn't be able to call me a pedo, so that's just a weak label. It is always about more than just the sex, and sex is just a means to reaching intimacy. Otherwise, I'd have better spent my time wanking alone.

she's very clearly looking for a fatherly figure to heal her daddy issues.

You're right, I have heard it expressed this way before! well if you put it that way it does sound like trouble... EDIT: read a bit more about "daddy issues". I think having read David Deida's spirituality books gives you a great foundation for dealing with these kinds of problems. It's not like I haven't dealt with my own abandonment issues either.

For the record, if I were 31 and had the chance to have sex with a 17 yo I probably would (at least from my younger perspective), but I would keep the whole interaction sexual, and wouldn't be pushing her emotional buttons.

I haven't met many women who are up for just sex alone. Those who are are searching for some hole to fill psychologically too, in some way or another. i don't think it's in their nature.

ritchan wrote: Shift the age ranges up, and you wouldn't be able to call me a pedo, so that's just a weak label.

For starters I never called you a pedo, I said you sounded like one. Anyway, under the same logic I could shift the age ranges down and then what? It wouldn't be a weak label? The fact of the matter is shifting the age ranges neither up nor down makes sense because the reality is she's a 17 yo girl with emotional issues and you are a 31 yo grown man.

I haven't met many women who are up for just sex alone. Those who are are searching for some hole to fill psychologically too, in some way or another. i don't think it's in their nature.

Nah, this is not true, and even if it were that doesn't mean they would all be 17 years old.

Like I said tho, do what you want. The only reason why I posted anything is because you sound like a cool guy but you don't seem to be entirely grounded in reality about what you are doing with this girl. Sexual attraction is one thing, and IMO it's ok at whatever age (obviously not at whatever age but you get the point) but another thing entirely is emotional vulnerability exploited for sex, that's not ok whatever way you look at it.

Alright, I take your point.

another thing entirely is emotional vulnerability exploited for sex, that's not ok whatever way you look at it.

I think I know what you're getting at. If she does come back, I will make it understood that no romantic partner can substitute for her dad. IMO, just keeping it sexual without dealing with the emotional part is using her misguided attempts to fill her heart to get sex.

I think we have wildly different experiences on what young girls are like, and that's the fundamental thing that determines the judgment. I happen to think that the younger they are, the more likely they are to have issues. I'd certainly like to meet your brand of sex-hungry, well adjusted young women!

@Jake da Dawg 100% agree with Jake. I would get it if you're trying to just fuck her but having this deep conversation and going on a date with a 17 year old is a little odd. Since you are 31, you should probably re-examine why you're even trying to go on a date with a girl who's 17, you're grown. I don't say this as a hater, i'm just saying something i'm sure other guys are thinking. Hope you are doing well however, stay safe.

I think it's quite simple. All my girlfriends except one were older than me, and the one that was younger than me I got so needy that I self-sabotaged the relationship.

As I grow older I find it harder to meet women who are beautiful enough to make me dangerously needy about them. This is great practice - she just turned out to be that age.

I find older women much easier to talk too, to relate to, and there are no confusing behaviour issues - if they like you everything goes smooth as butter, and I'm not intimidated by their beauty. That said, it's probably all in my head, because I'm still a bit scared with younger girls. As I said in the first post, this date shows that I've improved.

And the women who are beautiful enough to make me needy about them vs women who are beautiful... it's probably also in my head, and once I figure it out, there will just be "women who are beautiful". And I will lament this, and perhaps get even more needy for the unicorn that gets even rarer.

ritchan wrote: Alright, I take your point.

IMO, just keeping it sexual without dealing with the emotional part is using her misguided attempts to fill her heart to get sex.

I'm pretty sure that's not something that's up to you to decide, she should do it herself.

But anyway, I would suggest you get coached by Andy, he has proven he knows how to have no strings attached sex consistently. And for the record, I'm not saying or implying that there's anything wrong with developing emotional connections with girls, I'm saying it's weird to do it before sex when all you wanted was sex in the first place, it's dishonest, yeah, but also kinda creepy. Hope you get in touch with Andy.

I actually might kind of see where you are coming from. For a long time till this very day I often feel this chip on my shoulder to bang girls in their late teens. More than likely because I have sore memories of getting no action at all when I was a teeanger (till age 25 actually). It is very strong.

Look, just focus on a broader age range. If 17 is legal where you are then fair play but you might be making life far more difficult for yourself than you should.

In this case I guess you got oneitis not necessarily because she was 17 but because she was a lot hotter than what you are used to? Its a problem we all have to wrestle with and know how to manage.

Thebastard wrote: I actually might kind of see where you are coming from. For a long time till this very day I often feel this chip on my shoulder to bang girls in their late teens. More than likely because I have sore memories of getting no action at all when I was a teeanger (till age 25 actually). It is very strong.

Look, just focus on a broader age range. If 17 is legal where you are then fair play but you might be making life far more difficult for yourself than you should.

In this case I guess you got oneitis not necessarily because she was 17 but because she was a lot hotter than what you are used to? Its a problem we all have to wrestle with and know how to manage.

Yes, this exactly!

How do you manage this personally? So far, "overflowing myself with value" is the only mindset I have against this.

I manage it by hitting on girls I find hot, no matter what age they are. If some are 21 rather than 27 then great. If not then also great. Eventually you'll bang late teenage girls and slowly the pain point you are feeling will alleviate.

If you specifically want younger girls because your mind still sees them as 'hot enough to give you oneitis' then at least choose the range between 17-22 (online dating apps etc). And go on dates with plenty. Abundance is the ultimate kryptonite of oneitis and scarcity mentality.