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@1v1mekid I observed a turn to spirituality and specifically Christianity in the masculinity/self improvement crowd, although I can't remember specific names.
I agree that he is free to change his opinions and do whatever the fuck he wants. I still respect the man, he has accomplished a lot and I'm not judging his faith. But his recent actions do change completely the meaning of his past teachings.
Yeah I found this surprising, too. I've been following B&D for years and just met "Victor" in September. We went jeeping and shooting. Much quieter in person, but just as intense. He even came to my New Years Eve party and seemed like he had a good time, and we went hiking a few weeks later. He seemed like all he wanted was to live off the land and maybe start a family. I invited him out again a two weeks ago and the invite went unnoticed- he just wanted to tell me about Jesus. I think maybe he was missing a sense of community and felt like he achieved his goals and perhaps this is just a new adventure/sense of purpose. I wish him well, but agree what he said before about it being a "Slave mindset" religion. It's quite the 180 to go from fiercely independent to hardcore follower. I don't get it but I wish him the best.
I've actually hung out with Victor (Nick) in the last few months. He even came to my New Years party and seemed to have a good time. Seemed like he was looking for a sort of a homestead to raise animals and a family on. I message him a few weeks ago to see when he wants to go shooting again and all I hear is about Jesus, then he put his post up that same day. It's quite a surprise for someone so furiously independent, seeing as religion is all about following. Crazy he deleted (or hid) his whole blog. It helped a lot of guys and there was very little there I'd consider un-Christian. Seems like he's "finding himself". A couple months ago he was hanging out with some off-the-grid hippies, and now this. Last thing he told me is he'd be traveling out of the country for the next few months, so I'm really curious to hear how this happened. He's a tough guy to get a read on though.
Edit: crap....I came back to see if I had replies today and my post wasn't there, so I just re-wrote something similar....and as soon as I hit submit my old post pops up.
I have also turned to spirituality recently and I am not the only one. It is a trend, not necessarily without foundation.
I do feel the same things as Victor did, but I also feel the same thing that KIYL said. I am between these two.
Some time ago I considered making money off of porn. I am glad I didn't go that route, since although it would have made me money it does go both against my secular principles (I am pro NoFap) as well as others.
I think this whole thing is motivated by the events around us. There has been a lot of crazy things happening. After I brushed with SJW types twice I realized that I have little power in some regards but a lot in others. Wherever I understand that there is nothing I can do I just pray and accept whatever life throws at me.
I also on the other hand stand firmly that a man needs to look at his life and accept his past. I have done things in the past I do not fully agree with but I stand by them because they made sense at the time. Running away from that is definitely a questionable move. It was the same with Roosh. There is an argument to be made that a man must leave his past there as a reminder of what he did and face it, even if he disavows it. But I can also see how they feel that "they are pushing men to sin".
I don't think Christianity is a slave religion, that I do not find to be true at all and it does give me strength. That said, I am human and I have needs, so I don't feel as guilty about whatever misgivings I have because my choices are either suffer from abstinence, something that I am coming to conclude I am not sure I can fully get over, or to sacrifice success in the physical realm for pursuits of the spirit. Roosh and Victor have chosen the second, which I can respect, but they can afford that luxury being older and having gotten what they wanted from life.
I can't afford to run away from life. Life is a muddy forest, you are going to get dirty frolicking through it, and if you run away from that cause it makes you feel uncomfortable is not reasonable. Living in the real world means "getting dirty". That means breaking hearts sometimes, feeling guilty but doing things regardless, just moving on. Going full spiritual means giving up pursuits, some of which are hedonistic, some of which are not. Either way, "being spiritual" can actually be a form of weakness because you run away from the real world, your past decisions and struggle.
I do feel slightly guilty that I think of sex as much as I do, however I found that feeling guilty about it doesn't help it. It only makes it worse. I found that sleeping with girls is the best option for me at the moment as the alternatives are either to deny my sex drive which sends me into sadness and weird thoughts (both of which I can't afford, can't sacrifice my productivity when I have people to support and duties) and I don't find that to be good, no matter how I rationalize or tell myself "I can get over it" if only was "spiritual" or "strong" enough.
I also realized that my obsession with sex comes from a lack of abundance in something that most heterosexual men feel. I respect men that dedicate themselves to the spirit but someone out there needs to be living in the real world as it is.
I just want to tell people a parable that really changed my life around in regards to this question and I keep in mind to this day :
Once a 20 year old man went to a monastery to become a monk. He asked for permission from the elder of the monastery to be accepted. He said :
"Wise man, I leave behind my life in the world of men and dedicate myself to God"
The elder asked :
- What do you leave behind ?
- Everything, family, money, friends, all worldly things
- Are you married ?
No - said the young man
- Do you have kids
No - said the young man
- Do you have money or a home ?
No - said the young man
- Are you famous or respected ?
No - said the young man
- Do you have a job ?
No - said the young man
- Do you have friends ?
No - said the young man
- In that case I can't let you in
The young man was shocked by this reply. He asked why
- You are not coming to spiritual life, you are running away from the real world. Go back into the world and come back when you have money, a career, friends and a family
The man went back, he worked for 20 years. He made friends, got a wife and children who came of age, made a lot of money and became friends with powerful people, he traveled and dressed well. He went back to the monastery after all the years.
He told the elder of how far he got and thanked him for his advice. He asked then :
- I did everything you said elder, what do I do now to get closer to God ?
- Leave everything you have and join our monastery. Give enough to your wife and kids, say goodbye to friends and donate everything else
- Now ? After all these years and what I went through to get these
Suddenly the man realized how attached he got to all the goods he spent so many years building and how hard it is to part from the now.
- Yes. Only know you can know the true meaning of sacrifice.
I keep this parable in mind at all times. "Being dirty", i.e being imperfect by Christian standards is part of accepting life. Someone has to do things that a puritan might scoff at. In the end, the libido you have won't disappear. If you want to kill it somehow, good on you. But then you need to make money, that means having to be at least somewhat "greedy" and "attached to money". That is dirty too.
Running into the mountains because you are disgusted by your past or what you have to do in the present is not good spiritual practice. One must as spiritual as he can be without "running away from life".
A general doesn't suddenly decide to leave in the middle of a battle because "he found Jesus". Neither does a man who spent years building something in real life. A man has the right to change himself and disavow his past, but erasing it and running away from it completely can be a sign of weakness and not even proper from a spiritual perspective. That is just common sense.
I keep this thing in mind in my daily life. That having been said, with a lot of crazy stuff around, viruses, crazy people, etc. I do understand where that fervor comes from and I don't find it to be completely bad. But one must be careful to not over-react in spiritual fervor. You need to keep a cool head.
That said, I do feel the same struggle as these other guys. I do feel I should maybe care less about sex, but at the same time I realize I am an under-sexed guy in his 20s. If I feel guilty about what I am I might as well just bash my head against the wall.
The rule is to do the least bad thing you can afford to do. I can't afford to go full monk. I also can't afford to wallow in depression over the fact that I feel sexual urges I find excessive. I either find a practical way to not have a libido or accept that I either visit hookers or bang girls cause I sure as hell am not masturbating excessively or watching porn a lot, prefferably none at all. I am done with that.
Understanding the above eases my guilt and keeps my head cool and lets me move ahead with a clear mind. But I do know these feelings. One just needs to deal with them in a smart way and not go from 0 to full Jesus. There needs to be a balanced way to approach this IMO. You are not doing yourself, others or even Jesus a favor by just burning your entire past in an emotional rash over guilt. You have to deal with guilt like a real man, which is accept the past and disavow some parts, correct course but still keep a cool head.
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Unless, I'm missing something, I feel like this is WAY too much of a trend to be legit. Every guy I followed has tried to rebrand themselves or get out of the pickup advice game entirely. Listening to that one Chris podcast/interview from last summer, I feel like it just has to do with the way all of the major platforms have demonetized anything related to the manosphere. I've read and heard a lot from these guys strange comments like "I could never teach that stuff now," as if feminists control the internet. It does seem like they exert a hell of a lot of power at the moment and the money is just too good for all these guys to be going down all at once like this. Maybe, there's even legal action being taken against them if they don't take content down.
It's sad, man. Because, I've recently realized the final thing I needed to take off with women is to become truly awake to just how bad its become out here. Everywhere I fucking turn there's another woman or "male ally" talking about men like they're the most worthless, demonic pieces of shit to ever breathe. It's no wonder guys out here are scared shitless of being men with the messaging that's allowed to exist in the mainstream. I know for myself I need to make some serious changes to my lifestyle and the way I consume media if I'm ever going to get to a really great place where hooking up and dating gorgeous women is somewhat effortless.
RIP GLL, RIP Roosh, RIP Victor Pride, Hell, RIP RSD (nerdy but helpful.)
Regarding the parable, I feel like the opposite can be said. It is easier to leave worldly posessions when you have achieved them, than to give up the prospect of achieving success when you are young and full of desire. Also, like you, and many around here, I feel that I need to prove myself that I can achieve things first, and I'm not 'becoming spiritual' because of fear of the world.
There's a saying that the richest man is he who needs less. Arguably, a rich person has covered all his needs, so he is less needy that someone that lives paycheck to paycheck. There's some truth in that. But then there's the common scenario of the guy who is a millionaire but now he feels like he won't be truly rich until he's a billionaire. Repeat the same with girls, gym, etc. The void never ends. Actually, it can happen with spirituality too. I'm certain that there are guys that become attached to not being attached. There is an exception of something external that matters and that is friends or social ties. I do believe this is absolutely essential, and some forms of spirituality lead to an objectively verifiable unhappiness due to social withdrawal.
I think that it hasn't to do with either abundance of material objects or absolute deprivation. Neither you need any external thing to be happy nor there is any kind of dignity about being poor. External achievements are amoral moreso than immoral. They are not not bad, but they're temporary and sensorial. And they are so captivating that they can lead us to do bad things. That's why we have this sense of guilt around those worldly pleasures. There's an interesting relationship between prohibition and temptation, and I think that being too strict almost always leads to an 'ego depletion', and eventually committing a sin that's just as big as the censorship that preceded it (and the reverse may be what happened to Victor)
There's a saying, I think, by Luther that says (I'm paraphrasing) "Beware of those who are too pure, for the greatest evil has come from the best" it pretty much sums up how I feel about extremely spiritual people, it's almost uncanny.
Even the Bible, as it is, isn't so rigid and is open for interpretation (more in the case of money than sex). The Old Testament is more favorable to getting money. But even in the New Testament you have the parable of the talents, which exemplifies the infamous Matthew Effect. It has many interpretations, but one takeaway is that to get rich you need to 'let go' of money (invest it), therefore it's more spiritual than being poor. And the cycle repeats itself.
The Jews and the Prostestant Church in general (although not every cult) has a healthier attitude towards money, as a heavenly reward after years of diligent asceticism. I believe it is one of the best belief systems. The same can be applied to girls or anything gll like, it is an hedonistic desire that makes you a better human being in the way.
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