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I need some honest advice from the community on how to solve the dating / relationship aspect of my life.
Before I hit 30 I want to have hit 50 lays, with at least 10 of those being quality girls (hot).
26 years old.
Stats: 6’1, average income, still have my hair (dunno for how much longer), below average looks facially – here’s some pics:
Virgin throughout all of high school and college. Had a few (1-2) opportunities but never took them due to shyness and low self esteem, but also because I wasn’t good looking. Never had teen love or any of the amazing experiences that teenagers are supposed to have, which left me bitter and angry.
I’ve had Tinder on and off for 5 years (yes you read that correctly). In that time I’ve had thousands and thousands of matches, but 99% of them never went anywhere. I managed to get 35 lays off it, progressively more each year (in 2013 I got 0, in 2014 I got 2, in 2015 I got 3, in 2016 I got 6, in 2017 I got 10, in 2018 I got 14 within the first 6 months of the year, then met a girlfriend (my first one ever).
I’ve been close to smashing my phone in frustration with apps. The amount of flakes / conversations that go nowhere / catfishing / shit dates I’ve been on has made it insanely frustrating. Almost all of my conversations go like this:
Me: Hey, how’re you doing? (or some other generic opener)
Then no matter what I say they don’t respond.
I’ve tried a vast array of different photos and bios and always get the same poor response rates. So I’m close to giving up. Also most of the girls I match / have slept with were below average looking.
I’m still amazed by how badly I do on there. I know I’m not good looking, but to get the absolute trash matches I get is really unbelievable. NONE of the lays I’ve had have been my ‘type’ – just girls I’ve settled for because I had no other options. I have never had the chance to fuck an objectively good looking girl. The ones I get always have some serious flaws, just like me I guess.
Real life approaches:
I made my first REAL daygame cold approach on a girl in a suit shop 2 weeks ago. I got her number and we went out on a date but ultimately I couldn’t be bothered to pursue her as I thought she was a bit of a dickhead. Mouthy, entitled, hugely overconfident. Aside from that I’ve never cold approached a woman. I am so insecure about my face that I can’t bear it. But if I’m likely to get better results from that than online then I’m willing to try it. I see hundreds of girls every week that I’d love to approach but I never do it due to social anxiety. I can only seduce girls when I know they like me with 100% certainty.
General reception from girls:
I probably get 1 indicator of interest per month from girls. 99% of girls I see on a daily basis either look straight through me, around me, or look for a split second then turn away and don’t reengage again. I’ve never been called good looking by a good looking girl. I have very little reason to have self confidence.
I’ve never been the kind of guy who gets easy opportunities. Girls simply don’t seem to care about my existence or consider me a sexual option. Other guys clean up with ease. Even when girls are drunk they totally ignore me. It’s harrowing.
I’ve been hugely scarred by my experiences with girls and consider this part of my life an almost total failure. For years I fantasized about a future where I’d have hot FWBs and a cute girlfriend, but it never happened.
I now want to get this area of my life ‘wrapped up’. I want to fuck atleast 20-30 actually hot girls and then call it quits and settle down with a girl to marry and have kids, especially as my career begins to pick up steam. I’m getting too old for this shit.
What can I do?
I see myself as having 4 options –
1. Have facial surgery to improve my looks, which will improve my success on tinder (hopefully) the problem is the risks of looking worse / unnatural post-OP. I’d need to have double jaw surgery to lengthen my face and make it look more masculine / symmetrical. It would cost $40,000+ but I can afford that.
2. Start actively cold approaching girls to assess what I can achieve
3. Give up, settle down with a 4/10 girl and call it quits - attractive girls were clearly never meant for me.
4. Move abroad and try to get with foreign girls who have lower standards (Asia is out of the question, I’ve been and I didn’t like most of it, and don’t find Asian girls attractive).
Aim: To bang a handful of girls of this calibre before I turn 30:
I know you guys will probably trash these girls and rate them 5’s, but I don’t give a fuck, they’re hot to me and are currently out of reach. I generally feel so hopeless with women because all of them look at me as if I'm utter scum, shit on the bottom of their shoes. I've been ghosted hundreds of times and rejected ON dates on several occasions by only moderately attractive girls.
Any advice on a plan of action would be helpful. Keep in mind I’ve been on over 90 dates from online and know what I’m doing in terms of how to behave on a date, I just want to know whether it’s worth doing cold approach, or whether anyone here has experience in doing well with online game and has tips for me?
Mission: Fuck a legit hot girl by 2019
The topic has been locked.
Feeling pretty hopeless with women and not sure what to do
16 Oct 2018 19:45 #309712
I would tell you what I'd do, but other more experienced people will offer better advice. But there's one thing you need to do regardless of whatever course of action you take and that is stop reading the websites you're currently reading. When I read "I'd need double jaw surgery" I immediately knew what kind of websites you visit, stop doing that, it's not helping you, there's nothing wrong with your face, you simply don't have male model looks, like 99% of us, that's it. Plus your face would look much better if you put on muscle.
"below average looks facially" No. You're attractive - strong jaw, good facial hair. You're definitely above average.
It's VERY obvious your entire issue is self-esteem/lack of "sense of entitlement". You're exactly as attractive as me, maybe more so (because I'm a little fatty at the moment - about 23% bodyfat). You could be getting the same results as me (if you believed you deserved them).
You say things like what you wrote in my thread: "I'm 26 and feel like it's over age-wise." THIS is the reason you're not getting laid. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE to get laid while saying "I feel like I can't get laid".
My mate was looking over my shoulder as I was reading your post, and he said "Nice defeatism bro. Never gonna have any success with that attitude".
Most of what you wrote isn't really worth replying to (because it's not the important issue - your self-esteem/"learned helplessness"/pessimism is the only thing that's holding you back). But here's one I'll comment on:
"I probably get 1 indicator of interest per month from girls"
I get zero "indicators of interest" per month. Girls don't ever check me out. No girls ever flirt with me. I'm fat, why would they check me out. It's not their job to show you interest. It's your job to hit on a tonne of girls until one says yes.
"I've been ghosted hundreds of times and rejected ON dates on several occasions by only moderately attractive girls."
Congratulations, welcome to the game. This happens to me all the time, and happens to everyone else on here. Don't wish it was easier; wish you were better.So, actions I think you should take:
1) Don't get facial surgery. What in the fucking fuck.
2) Go see a counsellor/psychologist to get that self-esteem up. Talk about the fact you feel like you don't deserve girls, etc. Process all of it, work through it, talk it all out. The fact you want $40,000 facial surgery should be a huge fucking red flag. Facial surgery isn't going to fix the fact you think of yourself as a loser.
3) Lower your expecations. The girls you posted pics of are hot - I'd be very happy banging all of them. But you right now are not going to fuck those kind of girls, because your attitude is horrific. So lower your expectations and just bang a few "cute" girls. MOST of the girls I bang are average/cute. Hotties are rare. Settle for what you can get NOW, and slowly upgrade over time.
4) Take better pics. Tinder/online dating/etc requires good pics. You're definitely attractive enough to look great in photos. Just get a proper DSLR camera or find a mate who has one to take a tonne of photos of you. Take 1000 photos and you'll get a handful that look amazing.
You have all these expectations that girls are supposed to just throw themselves at your feet, because you don't realize that what you're experiencing is just HOW THIS STUFF WORKS.
You will NEVER, EVER stop being ghosted, ignored, rejected, and flaked on. That is literally what dating is and there is NOTHING you can do to change that, no matter how good looking you become. Accept it now.
I'd bet so much money if you showed us your online dating pics that there is massive room for improvement.
Also be careful with posting too many threads like this. You're on my mod-radar now and I ban people who complain more than a few times without posting a progress log or SOMETHING substantial.
Thanks for everything you guys. It's time for me to move on to bigger things!
Bro, you are delusional on a scale I can't even comprehend. Is this what you call ugly ? You look damn fine on your photos.
(I'll remove the photos if you ask)
Seriously bro, you look good. You need to be extremely self-delusional to think you look bad, Jesus ...
What can I do?
I see myself as having 4 options –
1. Have facial surgery to improve my looks, which will improve my success on tinder (hopefully) the problem is the risks of looking worse / unnatural post-OP. I’d need to have double jaw surgery to lengthen my face and make it look more masculine / symmetrical. It would cost $40,000+ but I can afford that
First, you do not look bad. You legit look good, what the hell are you thinking man
Second, even if that surgery is a success you will not that much better than now, guaranteed
Third, that's a lot of money and a lot of risk as you mentioned
Fourth, stopping reading that website, you know which one I am talking about
Virgin throughout all of high school and college. Had a few (1-2) opportunities but never took them due to shyness and low self esteem, but also because I wasn’t good looking
I don't know what you looked like in college, but if it is anything close to what you look now, looks where definitely not the issues, 300% sure
Never had teen love or any of the amazing experiences that teenagers are supposed to have, which left me bitter and angry.
I did not experience that either, and have experienced it recently when I dated a legal teen. Trust me, teenager love is over-rated, it just seems to be a big deal cause you never had it.
I probably get 1 indicator of interest per month from girls. 99% of girls I see on a daily basis either look straight through me, around me, or look for a split second then turn away and don’t reengage again.
Just like me and most guys here, that doesn't mean anything.
I’ve never been called good looking by a good looking girl. I have very little reason to have self confidence.
Bro, stop looking for approval.
I’ve never been the kind of guy who gets easy opportunities.
Me neither, that's what pushed me to this site and motivated me to get laid. I did cold approaches this year and got laid with 13 girls, some hot.
Other guys clean up with ease.
Only a very small minority of guys. Stop comparing yourself to the top 0,001% of men.
I’ve had Tinder on and off for 5 years (yes you read that correctly). In that time I’ve had thousands and thousands of matches, but 99% of them never went anywhere.
Not too unusual
I managed to get 35 lays off it, progressively more each year (in 2013 I got 0, in 2014 I got 2, in 2015 I got 3, in 2016 I got 6, in 2017 I got 10, in 2018 I got 14 within the first 6 months of the year,
So you are getting better. Yes it is very hard for you, but you are getting better.
I made my first REAL daygame cold approach on a girl in a suit shop 2 weeks ago. I got her number and we went out on a date but ultimately I couldn’t be bothered to pursue her as I thought she was a bit of a dickhead.
So you had date. Sure, not a good date, but you had one. You are already doing progress.
I know you guys will probably trash these girls and rate them 5’s, but I don’t give a fuck, they’re hot to me and are currently out of reach.
No one here is going to do this bro, they look good
I generally feel so hopeless with women because all of them look at me as if I'm utter scum, shit on the bottom of their shoes.
Are you sure that is the case ? Are you sure all women on the planet hate you viscerally and think you're shit, cause I think that's what you think they think.
Keep in mind I’ve been on over 90 dates from online and know what I’m doing in terms of how to behave on a date, I just want to know whether it’s worth doing cold approach, or whether anyone here has experience in doing well with online game and has tips for me?
Here is my opinion
1) You are delusional about the fact you look bad. Bro, you look good, not perfect but good, seriously. I can't even on this one.
Just for reference, there is a guy on this forum who gets threesomes from Tinder and when he started getting them he looked like this
so no, your looks are not an issue
2) You are already making progress. Maybe slow, but whatever. You are getting better and better, things are going better so why not just keep pushing ?
3) Yes, I recommend you cold approach. You have a lot of potential. Your looks are not bad at all. If I or any decent dude got into your body I guarantee we would clean it
In terms of game my advice would be : try better pics for Tinder and try cold approaching
In regards to looks you are already ok. I wouldn't recommend you kick yourself over that for a moment
4) stop reading the website you are reading. It is a cancer hole. Also, consider a psychologist, you have issues mentally speaking.
There is no reason you can't kill it with girls, just solve your mental issues and keep pushing. You can absolutely do it. You need to escape the bad mental place you are in and YOU WILL GET LAID WITH THOSE GIRLS IF YOU WORK ON IT, nothing is stopping you.
But, first and foremost, GET RID OF YOUR MENTAL ISSUES, that should be your number 1 step. That will be the biggest contributor to you getting laid.
Common man, drop the chains of self hatred. You can win at this and we want you to win. Just keep pushing it man. Get your mind sorted, free your mind of that self-hatred and you will get laid with the girls you want for sure.
"I’ve never been the kind of guy who gets easy opportunities."
You want it to be easy. You want to just walk outside and girls throw themselves at you. THAT'S the issue. You're too scared to put in the work, so you want to just bypass the hard work and teleport yourself straight to the finish line.
You want a gold medal without even attending the Olympics.
BAHAHAH @Coolguy I love that you mentioned me as an example of someone who looks like shit, made me crack up.
I look roughly the same now (but a hell of a lot stronger). Current pics taken 4 days ago:
@Hacknmash123: So you can't say you're any less attractive than me. I look like shit. But coolguy is right, I'm regularly getting 3somes (I've lost count of how many now). Because I put in the hard work and get rejected hundreds of times.
The tally was this
122 approaches = 60 rejection 26 taken 11 unavailable 25 contacts
+ 3 insta-dates (one where we made out)
2 of the girls out of those 122 I banged the next week on the first date each
So, almost half of my approaches were rejections. Yet out of those 25 girls that gave me their contacts, 2 I ended up sleeping with on date 1 (I had dates with 6 of them, but 4 didn't go far). Both were ok looking, one even very cute.
It is a low-margin game. You bang 1 out of 61 girls (usually something like 1 out of 100) and half your approaches can be rejections.
But in the end, if you approach 20 girls a week, that's almost 100 girls in a month. Which usually means 1 new girl every month.
Does that sound bad ?
I look like this
Do you still think you are doing worse than others ?
Don't ban me man. I'm not here to complain endlessly, I actually do want help. I know the kind of impression I'm giving off from my posts, but I really am struggling with this stuff.
The reason I cold approached the girl in the shop was because I finally decided 'enough was enough' and I felt a rare feeling of determination to succeed. I've had difficulties with women for years. But I am motivated.
Though I do very much appreciate what you guys are saying - I just would point out to 'killtheinnerloser' that I've seen your tinder results, and though I don't know your ratio of success (to lack of), it clearly blows mine out of the water. The last lay you posted in that thread was extremely hot. I'd be utterly content with a girl like that (I know that's not realistic however). You have 5 fuckbuddies...
I've been on Tinder for years with nowhere near those kinds of results. It takes monumental effort to get just 1 girl to meet - and I know for a fact most guys do not have this issue. Every guy I go out with gets IOI's and approach invitations, consistently, and they aren't even model-level good looking, so where the hell does that leave me? I think you might be underestimating just how bad my situation is and how girls think about me.
I mean, if I was 'good looking' in the eyes of women, would I really be making a thread like this?
You're not gonna get banned if you make changes. Bad Idea Bear just means, keep talking on here and processing your issues, but also TAKE ACTION at the same time. Make changes, etc - don't just ONLY talk about it. There's been too many guys lately who complain about their situation, we pour our hearts into giving them feedback and help, and they just ignore us and whinge some more.
Yeah I've had good results but my "ratio" would be god-awful. I don't even keep track, because what's the point? Why do I need to know how many girls have rejected me? All that matters is I get laid.
The VAST majority of girls I message on Tinder, don't ever reply. Like 80% of girls don't answer my first message. I AM NOT EXAGGERATING. 80% (OR MORE) OF GIRLS DO NOT RESPOND TO MY FIRST MESSAGE. I then send a second message to those girls and they still never respond. A week later I send them a "?" and guess what, they still never respond. So right out the gate, I'M GETTING IGNORED BY 80% OF MY MATCHES.
The ones that do reply, the majority of those aren't into BDSM. Like 80% say "I'm not interested" or "I'm interested, but only with the right person" etc.
And then the ones who are interested, the majority of THOSE don't give me a number when I ask for it. Like 70% don't give me the number.
Then when I DO get a number, the majority of those don't end up meeting me. Like 70% don't meet me.
The ones that do meet me, 100% of them I bang (literally 100% - I've never not banged a girl I meet up with, since starting my BDSM screening line).
So mate, I really am talking to 100 girls on Tinder in order to bang just 1. Coolguy mentioned 1/60 - 1/100 approaches is about how often he gets laid.
"You have 5 fuckbuddies..."
Yes but 1 of them is hot. 2 others are definitely cute/sexy. The other 2 are fairly average. It's not realistic to expect every girl to be as hot as that last one I posted. Why do you think I was so god damn excited about her? She's the hottest girl I've ever banged IN MY LIFE. I only bang a girl that hot like once a year. (It'll be more often once I'm more attractive, which I'm working on).
"It takes monumental effort to get just 1 girl to meet - and I know for a fact most guys do not have this issue."
As Coolguy pointed out, you are delusional. You have these incorrect assumptions (like "all girls think I'm ugly"). You just ASSUME this shit to be true, like it's the gospel. But it's NOT. So you know "for a fact" most guys don't have this issue? COOLGUY AND I HAVE JUST POINTED OUT WE HAVE THE SAME "issue" (if you could even call it an issue - it's not).
At this point you need to start assuming all of your assumptions are wrong. You're like Neo in the matrix when he first wakes up. "Welcome to the real world."
Looks like you have some body dysmorphia man. I had it throughout my teen years, thats why i wasn't getting laid because I thought I wasn't good enough and it showed in my behavior. You're def not ugly and i think you're above average and the fact that you banged 30+ women shows it even if there below average. You feel like you're entitled or better than these women that's why you can get them.
Read the article on here about sense of entitlement. It helped me a lot. How can you get the girls that you want without feeling like you deserve them? It's not your looks I have seen guys who look like you with hot women.
I say get jacked, get a nice tan, stud earrings ect. Do something that would make you feel happier with how you look but def not facial surgery that's crazy. Only thing that worked for me was trying to look the best I can and have girls telling me how handsome or good I look and after a while I believed it.
You made your first approach 2 weeks ago and you've come to a conclusion??
Every guy on here get rejected a lot no matter how good they look. You won't care after a while.
Bro you’ve already banged 35+ women, and you’re only 26 lmao. plus you’re legit at least a 7-8/10 face. You’re WAY ahead of most guys already. Most guys are LUCKY to get laid with more than 2-3 girls a year
The VAST MAJORITY of guys will NEVER even fuck 30 girls in their ENTIRE LIFE. Have some respect for yourself man. I’m almost 24 and have been with exactly 4 girls, only 2 were above average
Never forget to smile.
2019 Lays: 9
2020 Lays: 2
Ultimate long-term goal: 50 lays (12/50 so far)
At least 10 8+'s (3/10 so far)
At least 20 7+'s (5/20 so far)
Dick exercises - Angion method
Sleep by 10:30pm
Cardio 4x a week
Clean bulking, 2600 cal a day
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