TOPIC: Facial surgery: how to get honest women opinions

Facial surgery is my last resource. I don´t have to be ashamed of getting this, cause even the celebrities go trough It. Cristiano Ronaldo is an example.

Let´s be honest, there is a reason why celebrites do It. Because LOOKS ARE IMPORTANT. They know It. ;Looks are everything today. It can boost your career and can ruin your sexual life.

I know that you´ll say "you lack game" "you lack this and that". But let me tell you something, many times I tried pictures of a goodlooking dude on online dating, and you know what.

IT WORKS.Gets women attention, gets dates, gets numbers.

Well, I won´t say he would date or have sex with all the girls. You can be rejected in person for many other reasons. But at least HE HAS A CHANCE.

I don´t have a chance. I don´t even get a phone number, less a date.

I would like to experience what It feels a girl treating you well, paying you attention, having decent conversations in a chat with quick replies, ask her on date and she saying YES and being on a real date.

I´ve been years suffering and living every day with an extreme PAIN. I even asked to get a sexual surrogate at 25 and was denied to me.

Am 31 and I feel and missing a lot in life.

I wish girls were brutally honest on everything they dislike about me. I wish they could list everything:

"You face is ugly"

"Your eyes are shit"

"Your mouth is not sexually apealing"

"You are too short"

"You hair looks like shit"

Everything.

I would fix every single aspect, even If I had to pay for It and go trough surgery.

These are difficult times that young men are living.

Where would you find a woman who is honest about your looks.

This is the difficult part.

You can´t rely on men for this. Cause men rate other men differently.

And women tend to lie.

I am very pro plastic surgery, pro hair replacement, pro jaw surgery/braces (if you have a legitimate bite problem), pro height enhancing shoes etc.

Listen dude, I have fucked up teeth and am currently getting braces for it (Invisalign) as an adult (late 20s). There are quite literally millions of face/head altering surgeries and treatments that are taking place each year. Don't be the guy that says "ehh my bad teeth does not matter," "ehh my gigantic bald spot doesn't matter," "ehh being fat doesn't matter," etc. All these things matter. If you can get them fixed, get them fixed.

With that being said, if you go to a surgeon or dentist or orthodontist and they tell you that you have no problems, you are likely overblowing the issue big time.

To your point, People with fucked up teeth or fucked up jaws (ie the orthodontist literally tells you that your teeth are fucked up, not you believing your teeth look bad) literally cannot "optimize their tinder pics" because their teeth distort their face. Fat guys cant "just have confidence man" because they are fat. With that being said, I optimized my pics enough to get laid from tinder, bumble, pof and coffee meets bagel even though Im not great looking. Was I getting hundreds of matches a week? No. But I worked at it. I would reset my accounts every month. Paid for some boosts. And maxed out my pics as much as humanly possible

If you cant optimize your pics, you need to get out in the real world my friend. If you ask out 100 women and all say no, then Ill start feeling sympathy.

As a personal anectdote, I lost my virginity in college because I lost 40 pounds and began lifting weights more seriously (I had very fucked up teeth when I did this btw). I looked better, and then results came. I upgraded my style and wore clothes that showed off my physique and got laid even more. At the end of the day, I got laid because my looks improved (and still had fucked up teeth).

As you made clear, you cant change your facial structure by sheer will. On the bright side, An orthodontist, jaw surgeon or plastic surgeon can. Go to them, get a consultation, and if they say youre a candidate, get surgery or treatment. If you are, you now have a goal to save money for life changing work.

For you to start, I would suggest the following. You say your mouth looks weird. Guess what? Teeth alignment effects mouth shape. Get Invisalign. See if thats enough. The ortho will tell you if there will be drastic changes expected. If he cant fix you, they will refer you to a plastic surgeon or jaw surgeon. Very minimally invasive techniques like botox can also alter lip shape, so look into that too.

You claim your eyes are shit. A lot of times, this is actually indicative of a jaw issue because your eyes sit on your upper jaw bone. For example, look at Jay z. His eyes are weird. He has a classic face for jaw surgery and he would look much less tired if he got work done (also, jay z is an ugly mother fucker who regularly fucks models, use him as motivation). If that isnt the cause, eye cream does wonders in getting rid of baggy eyes. Look into how to take care of your skin

You claim to be short. Buy shoes that make you taller. 2 inch insoles will be very beneficial. Idk how tall you are but you want to try to be above 5'5. If you are, you are making some excuses because I know a few 5'5 guys who get laid like kings (they are jacked though)

You sound hopeless, but my point is, there is hope.

You also need to ask yourself this. Do you have any guy friends or a social life? Do you work a social job? If all of these are no, you need to fix them. Very below avg men get with beautiful women because they have a ton of friends, high quality social life (Ie chris himself got laid for a year strictly from being heavily integrated in the party scene), or a social job (ie bartenders and club promoters). You dont need to be a club promoter, but maybe working the front desk at a gym or being a barista at a coffee shop will help you cultivate a social life.

Finally, if you want honest opinions, go on photofeeler. I will say this though. If its a selfie, you will not score above a 6 even if youre good looking. It needs to be a decent picture. Even a full body mirror shot beats the selfie every time

I dont´do well in social situations. Social life doesn´t work for me. I end up talking to tons of dudes, and getting 0 interest from women.

For girls It´s like I´m not there. Am invisible to them. I´m there, but they can´t see me. It´s a waste of time.

For calm and introvert dudes, social life doesn´t work. Women are very good at determining who is on charge in any social situation. Some guys don´t have status or are physically attractive enough to attract women in social circles.

My only hope is online, but I don´t cut the looks thresold.

Every single date proposal has been a "No" for me.

Live in London, a city with 9 million people and can´t manage to get 1 date.

I see very goodlooking dudes tend to do decently well on Tinder and dating apps.


Online dating has an advantage for introvert guys. Once you get a date. only the girl and you will be there. You won´t be competing with 8-10 other dudes, wich is what happens in social circles.


Also I´m considering moving to another country, somewhere in Eastern Europe, maybe. Where men and women ratio is more balanced. I don´t speak any russian, and the english knowledge of girls there might be very basic. I don´t know how guys manage to do It (know many who went to Eastern Europe as the last resource).

Again. Everything has to be online. I hate bars.


Worked in bars and clubs back in the day. Had some oportunites then, but I was severely depressed by that time. Was bouncer back then.

Also I always had the feeling that girls were only talking to me cause I was a staff member.
That If I was some random dude in the bar they wouldn´t give me the time of the day. And that was something disgusted me (call me weird if you wish ).

BTW, working at bars as a bouncer, barman, etc. is a job that you do when you are young. Can be fun quite a while, but I wouldn´t give up my actual career to go back to the clubs.

And you have to deal with the drunks every night. No, I definitely won´t work at bars now, sorry.

We are here offering solutions. Instead, you continue to bitch and whine.
You claim youre ugly. Yet you wont try to:
1. gain muscle
2. lower body fat
3 .consider orthodontics
4. consider facial surgery
5. Consider altering hair appearance
5. attempting to become more social (newsflash: the guy who wrote this site is a massive introvert who also doesnt like being social, yet he pushed through it to date women and increase his social circle)
6. you wont alter your style or change the way you dress
7. You claim that you hate your life, but cant give up your "career" in order to attain a more social job. Pick one: be miserable and have a "career" (if you have money saved and are single, why the fuck do you need a career??) or you can have a social job that helps fix up your dating and social life for 3-5 years before you work a regular job again.
8. You say everything "has to be online" when online clearly favors looks over all other types of dating (as opposed to day game, night game and social circle). Ask yourself: Have you actually given night game and day game and social circle legitimate tries? And not "I tried it for a week" - No, it has to be at minimum months if not a year.
9. You havent seriously attempted to increase your male social circle which in turn will increase your access to women You say you end up talking to a ton of dudes. Im calling bullshit. Guys who have a lot of guy friends generally tend to also be guys who get a lot of female attention
10. You havent taken any sort of drugs to help with your mental state. Antidepressants, antianxiety medications, weed, mushrooms etc

You are also delusional about online dates. You still need to actually be able to hold a conversation for 30 minutes to multiple hours, on the first date alone, to actually have success. I doubt you can even do that right now because you are so negative about yourself. Ive gotten laid from online before. On the rare occasion, you can have sex within 30 minutes. Its incredibly rare though. The average woman will actually want to talk to you for hours at minimum before engaging in anything physical with you. And if you actually want consistent sex, you need to be interesting and social enough to keep her around.

"Working at a bar is something you do when you are young": You are actually delusional at this point. datausa.io/profile/soc/bartenders#:~:tex...emale%20counterparts .
The average age of a bartender in the US is 35. 35. Not 25. 35. You are 31. You'd be younger than average

You honestly sound pathetic. If you actually listened to any advice you received on here and still had no success, Id feel bad. The problem is you ignore literally every ounce of advice given and sit online and bitch and moan about how much your life sucks. I just gave you 10 insanely general things you could at least try (and Im sure others have given you a lot of other ideas), yet I doubt youll even attempt two of them. Instead, you'll sit online, call yourself an incel, and feel sorry about your existence

1. I´ve already gained muscle. Been since I was 19 gaining muscle. Doesn´t work.

2. Lost fat. Got visible abs. Guess what? I got wrinkles all over my face. Cutting ages you faster depending on the type of face that you have. When I´m low body fat, my face looks DISGUSTING. Looks SICK.

Those Tinder fellows with a full smiling face, ripped abs and broad shoulders are ON STEROIDS most of the time. Many guys who cut naturally don´t look more attractive, LOOK OLDER AND SICK.

We are now competing against dudes that shouldn´t even exist: guys on steroids for mating purposes.

Yes, I tried to change the fucking style.

I took several pics dressing with trendy clothes. I even hired a professional photographer to get my best poses.

I was even willing to invest 1000 $ in new clothing if those pictures worked.

Guess what???? Got 0 results.

Girls don´t give a fuck about what you are dressing.

Show them an Instagram steroids dude in a swimsuit and he would get inmediate responses, numbers and dates.

I just wanted a normal wife and have a normal familiy. Can you understand how painful all this artificial world is for guys like me?

I am selfemployed. Work from home. Took me 5 years to build my business. I thought this would be great to have children, work from home, have time for them.

i don´t want to be in a fucking bar, doing things I don´t like and coming home at 5:00 am.

Women today are SICK and completely disconnected from the human purpose of mating and having a family.

They just want social clowns and artificial clows on steroids, who at the end of the day ARE USELESS for raising a healthy familiy.

I wish this fucking system burns.

First off, not every guy who is ripped is on steroids. I am incredibly ripped and have not taken a ped in my life. I also dedicate a shit ton of energy to the gym and have done so for about 10 years. Thats diet plus consistently training 4-5 days a week, almost every week, for almost 10 years. Also, if you actually believe these guys are juiced, why not take steroids? Nothing is stopping you from going to a doctor and asking for Testosterone

On raising a family: By your definition, Id be a useless guy at raising a family. And so would more than half the guys on here. Newsflash: we are not. We are more likable than you, we likely make more money than you, and we are more social than you. Why? Because we actually put in effort into fixing our problems instead of bitching about it on anonymous forums all day. Its kind of sad to watch you write this because your problems are actually fixable if you just tried to fix them.

You somehow believe you'll be some god at raising a family and are somehow better than any guy who is ripped or uses PEDs. You wouldnt. You'd be a controlling and paranoid dude who would keep tabs on his wife throughout all hours of the day. I still dont know Wtf being jacked has to do with being a good father?

You keep saying WE. Stop including us in your problems. I and many others here have gotten laid and have gotten into relationships from online dating, cold approaching and social circle. We are not the fucking instagram models with 100k+ followers that you are describing. Do not include us in your problems. We had social and dating issues (or still have them). Instead of bitching, we actively went out and fixed our issues or are trying to at the moment.

You dont get to pick and choose how society revolves around you. You literally dont leave your house and bitch about not having women in your life. Generally, that happens to guys who dont leave their homes. Youre holding onto a business that is making you miserable instead of letting it go temporarily to fix your social issues. Youve realized what a bunch of men have realized as they age. Women do not give a fuck about your job unless you are absurdly wealthy, its a cool business to be in, or its a social job. You need to be social, attractive and around women to get with women. Most guys realize this and adapt. You are choosing not to adapt and are holding onto old beliefs that dont work instead of letting them go and adopting a new belief system.

There are ancient stories and religous stories that talk about this. Its called sacrifice. If you have a serious problem, sometimes you need to sacrifice your former self to become your new self. If you worked at a bar at night and a gym during the day youd automatically have 2 brand new social circles you could work with. If you cold approached 1 woman a day for a year, Id guarantee that one would be willing to be your girlfriend. But you havent done that and instead are throwing yourself a pity party.

You may think women are sick today. The guys on this forum dont. I have 4 sisters and love women. The vast majority of us on here like women and want to have relationships and or have sex with them. Are some women shitty? Absolutely. Are some guys shitty? Yup. You cannot categorically disparage a gender because you cant get laid. We dont resent them. We want to be around them. Thats literally why were are here. We are trying to solve the simple fucking question: How can I become better with women so I can be around them more and they like me more. And we are trying to figure out how to become more attractive and social to attain relationships with them, whether its short or long term.

A note on online dating: Heres another newsflash for you. Online dating is popular. With that being said, most women do not use apps. The user based is still 70-80 percent male depending on the app. Why? Because women dont use them as a group. You act like online dating apps are the only possible way to solve your issues. Youve decided to arbitrarily throw out day time approaches, going out to bars and developing a social circle. Have you read anything about this site on how Chris got better with women? It was cold approach, social circle, and going out every night. Very little of his success came from OLD.

Good luck with your approach though. Youve literally thrown out 75%+ of the actual dating game and are bitching about no results

If you want to continue being a whining, women hating incel who refuses to do anything to become more attractive or more social, go somewhere else.

I´m against what you call cold approaching. It gives women more power.

Every time a woman colds approach me, I will cold approach one of them.

Till now, I´ve been cold approached 0 times this year. So, no woman to cold approach.

Great dude.

"It gives them more power."

I dont even know what the fuck that means.

Good luck sitting in your basement knowing that you didnt give some random woman more power while another guy with balls went up and asked her out and is now dating her. Those two will be having sex while you sit at home alone priding yourself on not giving her "power"

@sabanMiles11, don't feed the troll.

It's great that you're trying to help this dude out. But this is a forum for taking action - and since this guy isn't taking any action (yet) better to leave him alone.

@Incel_help, help yourself and don't post any more discussion threads. Post a log and update daily/weekly/etc. with what concrete actions you're taking to improve yourself / achieve your goals.

Incel_help wrote: I´m against what you call cold approaching. It gives women more power.

Every time a woman colds approach me, I will cold approach one of them.

Till now, I´ve been cold approached 0 times this year. So, no woman to cold approach.

No, it actually gives you more power, it gives you the power to choose what you want out of life. Right now you are powerless because you haven't faced your cowardice, yet you reframe this fact to portray yourself as a victim of circumstance yet the circumstance you're in you brought it upon yourself.

"Every time a woman colds approach me, I will cold approach one of them.
Till now, I´ve been cold approached 0 times this year. So, no woman to cold approach."
Cool, it doesn't affect me, it doesn't affect other people on the forum, it doesn't affect anyone on this planet expect yourself, so if you think that your victim mindset is somehow leveling the field (although it's OBVIOUSLY not) then suit yourself, but I suggest you grab a quite comfortable chair because you are gonna be waiting for a very long time.

About meeting women while socializing. Dude a few years ago, I wanted to play some over the board chess so I started meeting up with the local chess club in my city. Some of the other guys would take female friends and I could also talk to girls that worked at the venue. Dude.. socializing for CHESS gives you a shot at meeting women. I'll repeat that again.. CHESS. That game only nerds play.

1v1meKid wrote: Dude.. socializing for CHESS gives you a shot at meeting women. I'll repeat that again.. CHESS. That game only nerds play.

Not, chess, but I've done just that with board games. Nerdy guy games like Gloomhaven and Eldritch Horror. I moved to a new city and would go to these board game meetups twice a month, hosted at a local coffee shop. About 1/3 of the people would be women. It's at least as good as a bar setting. No loud music, slower pace, you have time to chat and socialize. I pulled multiple dates from that group.