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"Cold approach naturally involves a ridicoulous amount of rejection. This is something that isn't usually mentioned neither on the pua or gll community. Yeah, Chris talks about that, but that shit was in 2013. Conversions are much much lower now, for whatever reason. No one mentions either how emotionally tough it's to cold approach. Not once, but to do it over and over, on a consistent basis. It's really like a full time job. Social circle really alleviates the rejection a lot. Sure, you will get rejected, but it won't be 99.5% of the time. I know that guys here will rather muscle through tons of rejection than conform to the majority just to get some pussy. But that's the problem of being a lone wolf. The world works through connections. No one gives a shit about you unless they know you. Being isolated really fucks up your opportunities in life."
The problems with cold approach you mention are only the case if getting laid and cold approaching are the only thing you do and care about.
"I've only seen a handful of guys fuck legit hot SKANKS from cold approach. They live in huge megacities, with PERFECT logistics, they approach very high volume, like VERY, high, not 30/week like Chris suggests, but they immerse themselves in hudge stations for hours and approach 100+ girls 5 days a week."
Definitely, getting laid a lot is something you do in big cities. Online dating, cold approach or otherwise.
"I hear you, it may be inauthentic to try to behave in a certain way to belong to a crowd just to get girls. But for me, it's even more lame to pay for a bunch of photos, then pay for a boost, then spend time swiping on chicks and messaging without an answer 95% of the times."
Difference is that if you can cold approach, have a good online dating profile. You can get laid anywhere. If you depend on your social circle, tough luck if you have to move.
"One of those cool guys came to the forum, gave a bunch of advice, posted proof and made some criticisms to the gll strategy... and he got shit for it."
Are you talking about that French guy living in LA? If so, I don't recall him ever getting a lot of shit. If anything, he was looked up to. I also don't recall much proof.
Also, I would add that the only guy I can recall that got laid from all means on the forum was NoStringsAttached. Cold approach, online dating, social circle. He legit made getting laid his life's purpose while he was pursuing it.
At the end of the day we shouldn't take any of this too seriously. Having sex with tons of girls should not be that big of a deal. I agree with most of what you said too. If you go out with the goal of just having fun and a good time it will be easier to meet new people.
Where I'm coming from is: I'm not a naturally social or extroverted guy. So all of this shit feels forced and tryhard to me. A lot of what I write comes from a place of regret of being a loner in my early 20's, thinking that if I improved myself chicks will come and I would get laid plenty.
This site is pretty dead, but I write in the hopes of reaching out to guys fresh out of highschool. I didn't realise it at the time, but my highschool connections were worth their weight in gold and I didn't see it at the time. Having outgoing friends is much much more important than increasing your biceps 2 inches or reading self improvement books or doing AA program drills . I was a timid beta back then but just for being at the right place I had much more sexual opportunities than now. In hindsight, if I had a tiny fraction of the agressiveness I have now, I could have been getting laid plenty back then without any cold approach or online dating.
So that's why I question so much generic advice that will likely give little results. It ends up being a vague, feel good platitude. "Just be friendly/social" never worked for me, I end up approaching 2 girls a month and AA appears again. For me, it's important to schedule an specific time for approaching where I go with my bike specifically looking for opportunities to approach. Approaching girls at the gym or grocery store or class or any place that I frequent is not natural for me, it gives me even more anxiety because I don't want to see the girl again if she rejects me.
There are environments more favorable to approaching, yes. If you approach on a campus, a library, grocery store, etc you'll get warmer reactions and maybe higher conversion rates than if you approach on a busy street where girls are commuting from the office. Some bars are better than others. Venue is important I agree. Some countries are better than others. I'm in a small city in Latin America, and people are very cliquey and social circle and family oriented. It's easier to approach in a country like Japan that already has a cold approach subculture and people are already used to weird social behavior. In third world countries like Thailand you get bonus points for being western, men are more beta or gay so you have less competition (I'm not talking from personal experience here though). Also, the scenario is not the same now than 10 years ago. It was much easier to get laid from cold approach back then (meaning, conversion rates were higher). If either Scotty or Chris approached the same volume they approached back then now, they would have average results.
I'm talking about cold approach because, if you don't choose to go out consistently with the same group of people and meet new people through your current friends, you are doing cold approach, and it's a completely different ballpark . You can go out with a wing and that alleviates the nervousness, you can approach only girls you made eye contact with, etc. But it's still cold approach.
Btw, and I'm not trying to sound like an asshole, but did you smash those girls you approached with your friend? If not, they're likely to ghost.
Going out, being social is not hard. Making out with random girls is not hard. What's hard is pulling random girls from clubs and smash on a regular basis (specially hot girls) . It's also easy to go out and make small talk with random people and have a good time. But then you never see them again and you are back at square 1. What's hard is to form a long term connection that allows you to get invited to events. I've had a ton of interactions where I felt I was vibing really well with the girl, that I made a connection, that I was smooth. It didn't matter, girl ended up ghosting anyways.
I'm very skeptical about behavior changing in any significant way your results in cold approach. In my opinion, this leads to one of the biggest misunderstandings: thinking rejection or success is something that's reflective of you as a person . It's not. Success comes down to 1) positioning 2) numbers game/luck . In sales, I believe it simply comes down to your amount of activity, how many leads you call, how many doors you knock and how pushy/persistent you are. Again, It's the same as getting laid, it's much easier to sell to warm prospects that are already customers from the brand than it's to cold call new customers. It doesn't really matter how smooth you are. People are gonna buy or not buy because their cousin in law adviced them to do so. As stupid as it may sound, people rely on their close circle of friends and family to make 99% of decisions. Maybe persuasion techniques work and I'm wrong, but I don't think they change your conversion significantly.
I agree that people have a 6th sense that allow them to know that you are trying to sell them something/trying to get a benefit for yourself from the interaction. When I approach girls with a friendly vibe, I get warmer rejections. When I go on full asshole mode, I get harsh rejections or girls run away scared. But I think it's misleading to make assumptions based on the initial reaction . Sure, if you're nice and outgoing you might get a better reaction, but I don't think that changes whether a girl will consent to sex or not. The same applies for looks. Sure, now I am 10% bodyfat I get occasional compliments and I may even get approached by some girl once a year. But I don't think this means you'll get more sexual outcomes, just more attention.
Having a good physique is cool, and I don't want to discourage anyone from going to the gym. It's just, for the amount of effort it requires, I don't think it improves your sex life significantly. Its main benefit may be the placebo effect: you feel good about your body, so you approach more chicks, you get more results, so you confirm your belief that it was your body that got you the girls (while in fact it was just your action taking).
-You kinda have to make cold approach the focus of your life if you want to have any serious success, specially if you are starting out and have crippling AA. There's no way around this. Get laid a lot=get rejected a lot Get rejected a lot=Emotional pain that recquires lots of will power to overcome
-With a good online dating profile you can get laid plenty in any city. But with cold approach any city, or any "big" city is not enough . There are a lot of people from Miami in a daygame chat I'm in, All of them agree that there's not enough volume in that city Less than 30 sets a day is not good volume. A good city is at least 2 million people (either in city proper or the metropolitan area) AND needs to have areas with dense pedestrian traffic (shopping streets, public transport stations, etc). Some cities are designed for cars and people commuting from suburban areas, with their population more spread out.
-You're somewhat right about moving and social cricle, but that's because most people rely on the social circle they inherited from childhood/early adulthood. While it's tough to create a social life from scratch, it can be done . Luke Krough has good content on it on YouTube. I've met some naturals in my life that can do about the same. The best of the best can create a social circle in any city in a matter of weeks. As GettingitAll said, cool people have the same social cues everywhere in the world.
-Yeah, I'm talking about that guy. He did got a lot of shit when he said some of the respected guys on GLL wasn't banging super hot girls but rather, just cute girls online. Then he posted his lays reports and everyone shut up. He posted proof for almost all of his reports but deleted it in 24 hours or so. He gave lots of advice on how to become part of the social of your city. Then he got shit for it, again. People didn't like that he advocated buying designer clothes, getting pierced/tattoed because that's fake and gay. Pretty much like this thread. No one wants to pay price for action.
Then for some reason deleted all his posts on the forum. Interestingly, a lot of the guys that finally figured this shit out did about the same, deleted their posts and disappeared from the face of the earth.
I get so heated up about this because when I got into this game I started with full hope, thinking that approaching random girls was a big deal and I was going to get laid a lot from it. I was a big believer on it, but then the reality of it hit hard. I realized that most guys here weren't getting laid from cold approach, or even cold approaching at all . That my high school friends that banged the hottest girls didn't do a single cold approach in their life.
Most guys when they find out the truth of cold approach quit. They either stick to apps, or worse they give in to social pressure and get into a LTR they are not satisfied with just to get consistent sex. Or even worse, they go full mgtow/black pill and pretend they never wanted to fuck tons of girls in the first place.
And I feel there IS a way out but the vast majority of information online is awfully misleading or unhelpful , including this forum (not chris original posts tho) . You have to apply some critical thinking AND take action. Telling people "just go out there and be social" is the equivalent of saying "just go to the gym and eat clean". No, you need to lift weights and eat a caloric surplus, otherwise you'll go nowhere. It's not like there's some secret hacks, but there are specific steps that you need to follow if you want to be succesful at anything , otherwise you'll be doing trial and error for 10 years.
And no, I'm no expert at this, I haven't figured it out yet. If anything, I've failed miserably. But at least I can tell you from experience what doesn't work. Just approaching a dozen girls a week doesn't cut it anymore. Having an online profile is worthless unless you can shoot proffesional photos. Going out and socializing doesn't bring any benefit unless you form a long term relationship with cool people.
This is one of the articles Gettin' posted on this thread.
I think it's an obligatory read,
It paints a real accurate picture of how the real world works.
The social world isn't much different outside college.
Yeah, it sucks, people are extremely judgemental, superficial, hippocritical, they have double standards. But it's that or playing the game on hard mode aka. being a pick up artist/creep or paying some app, working really hard for each lay, then getting ghosted. As someone said up there, having 2 or 3 regular girls is better than one night stands, and that's another issue with cold approach... you get ghosted post hook up.
We still disagree on several things though and I find it a bit unfair to the newer guys to be discouraged like that.
I don’t know your current reality. It might be completely different than mine. Lot of factors is involved in this, but cold approaching in Denmark works. We cold approached (but did it in a warm way) these girls, and yes, they are answering my texts so far. I am going to go out with them next week. They where the first girls we approached. They even gave me their number without me asking for it, with a cute little trick. I had to get the drinks at the bar, they paid me back on phone app and even paid for my drink. Okay success ratio so far. Will I smash them. I don’t know and don’t care. Plenty of others and I am doing social circle game starting through cold approuch, by getting known more and more in the scene.
Have to mention that I have a good face. Girls at work are hitting on me and giving me compliments. My looks give me lots of attention and I have pulled girls from the club with it.
Plenty of girls in Denmark are DTF at clubs. Is she the hottest one? No, often she is just cute. The hottest one is often through social circle game, but just as often she has a boyfriend already. Sometimes the girl who is DTF is seriously hot and compared to the ratio of which hot girls already have a boyfriend in social circles. I don’t know. Why not just do both. And tinder, and cold approach and so on.
I am sorry, but my company has done their own studies on this. Plus, they have researched and collected many studies done on sales. It is not just a numbers game. It is very much both. Just as with girls. I sell five times as much as I did in the beginning with less calls. We have sales people who constantly pull crazy numbers everyday and others that don’t. We see constant progress through training. A lot of this comes down to tonality, tempo, humor, energy and confidence, (things you also develop by becoming yourself more, being genuine, confident) It is very intuitive and mainly comes through practice, not reading about it. Just like basketball, boxing, football or any other sport. I did not know this either before I started in sales.
Yes, people rely on friends, relatives etc. Basically, they rely on trust. We do that with sales. We sell the person and the trust, and it works. Chris, Boy Toy also supports this. You will become better at connecting by connecting and become better at talking by talking. The caveat is that a lot of it is simply you becoming more confident and freer, which in turn will change your behavior radically. So we sell by creating a social circle very fast, by becoming friends with the customers. They are even recommending us to friends and family a lot.
I don’t argue against creating social circle from scratch. I am doing that myself right now. I am just advocating doing it differently than GettingItall. Mine is more positive in that you are befriending more people in general and not just key players. I am not arguing that there will not be plenty of dead ends. People rejecting and ghosting you. But not in that amount and with all the negative consequences you mention. But I live in Scandinavia, so maybe that is why. . It just seems very dogmatic and rigid and movie like. Reality is a bit different even in college. At least where I live.
It is not about having a bigger bicep, but being lean, defined, athletic looking. This is candy for girls. Muscles does not even have to be very big. Lot of UFC fighters that is not juiced to the gills have very attractive bodies. The ring girls are fucking oogling them all the time at weigh inns. A lot of them are still somewhat ugly to girls because their face is often bad. The two combined though, is gold.
I am saying looks and connecting with people will most definitely improve your ratio. Even Chris says that. Even having good social Circle standing, you will struggle with fucking the girls. See this way too often. Guys think they have a good chance with the girl by being hot shit in the circle. They are the leader, and fun, gets the girl laughing, provide good energy, talks to the girl a lot, talks to all the other boys. Girl runs off with the most attractive in the group. Usually he is also quite confident, good at socializing, having fun.
She likes being with the other guy more, but he is not as fun to fuck as the hot one. Girls are not that different from boys when it comes to sex. Again, Chris says the same. I very much agree, even though for many years I thought differently. The hottest girls in Denmark, walks around with the hottest guys. I see that all the time. The guy can be boring as fuck. He often isn’t completely boring because he has a lot of confidence, social interactions, and cool experiences he can talk about. Still, plenty that are boring as fuck with pretty girls. Very few ugly ones with hot girls, but even that happens sometimes.
I agree that the devil is in the details. Going to the gym and eating clean often means working out and eating plenty of healthy food. But often times you have to clarify to get some people to understand something, that seems quite obvious to others. I very much advocate giving specific advice. My posts reflect that a lot. I am very detail oriented so people understand exactly what to do and what I mean. Again I am not arguing against that.
“Some of these guys are "on the bubble" and can put themselves into the Top 20% by rushing a cool fraternity, MAXING out their looks, becoming a notable "friend of fraternity" or securing a Wildcard.”
This is a bullshit world that only exist in a small bubble in America. This Is not real life, and is a fucking weird existence. Sorry to say.
To close it off I am not arguing against social circle game form the beginning. I was arguing for social circle game. I was just saying that there is a better way. One that will give you a more positive outlook on life and in turn help you grow more.
In my case, I'm not so attractive from my face. I suffered from acne from late teens to early 20s and I have bad acne scars. My saving grace was that from 14-22 I was obsessed with powerlifting. Then I found GLL, where I learned that all I needed to do was lose body fat. Everything changed for me when I got to about 11% body fat. Girls from work would start to hit on me. I went on my very first date ever when I was 23 with some random girl giving me her number unprompted at a fast food restaurant. I didn't lose my virginity til I was 24.
I didn't pursue getting tons of lays as much as I would have liked when I was doing this stuff; I had to change focus because I was poor, I've done enough cold approach to know that even that works. I'm doing better off now financially, I'm thinking results will be even better now.
They properly will. Money definitely helps too in direct and indirect ways. My experience has also been that a good body makes a huge difference. Muscles with low bodyfat. Winning combination. Just not bodybuilder levels of muscles.
Gabo wrote: somethinggood: First, I need to make a clarification. I don't believe that looks are overrated (they're still not that important compared to being cool and taking action tho), but looks maxing is. Being tall and having good facial genetics makes you stand out. But there's not much you can do about that, you can only marginally improve your looks by going to the gym.
Having said that, it's not that I like the fact that people are judgemental or that going to the gym makes almost no difference to your social life (unless you're really overweight). It's just the way it's. This is not about "not being healthy" or being "shallow". This is completely subjective and it doesn't really matter. It's about: who is fucking the hottest girls.
"I Think GLL nailed it on looks and it is not overrated, especially combined with a bit of social freedom or online dating". Exactly, online dating, that's what most people here or on killtheinnerloser's forum are doing. Nothing against that, it's just: most guys aren't getting laid from cold approach. They don't even cold approach at all.
Cold approach naturally involves a ridicoulous amount of rejection. This is something that isn't usually mentioned neither on the pua or gll community. Yeah, Chris talks about that, but that shit was in 2013. Conversions are much much lower now, for whatever reason. No one mentions either how emotionally tough it's to cold approach. Not once, but to do it over and over, on a consistent basis. It's really like a full time job. Social circle really alleviates the rejection a lot. Sure, you will get rejected, but it won't be 99.5% of the time. I know that guys here will rather muscle through tons of rejection than conform to the majority just to get some pussy. But that's the problem of being a lone wolf. The world works through connections. No one gives a shit about you unless they know you. Being isolated really fucks up your opportunities in life.
I hear you, it may be inauthentic to try to behave in a certain way to belong to a crowd just to get girls. But for me, it's even more lame to pay for a bunch of photos, then pay for a boost, then spend time swiping on chicks and messaging without an answer 95% of the times. Maybe if you have an excess cash to spend that's the right move, but a lot of guy in their 20's don't have their financial shit figured out. Imo this "Don't be fake, don't be a sheep" mentality comes from insecurity of not being able to perform adequately on a social environment. It's just another form of social anxiety. Cool people may be superficial, they like to gossip, etc, but that doesn't mean they are bad people or that they are dumb. Chris has a very good take on this on his video "Be a hippocrite, not a follower".
It's not that I care so much about what other people think, but I do care about getting results.
Legit cool guys are getting laid for a fact. With hot girls, not average ones. I've met them online and IRL. I've only met one cool guy that does cold approach. It's typically guys from rough backgrounds that do cold approach (because they haven't yet been emasculated by the current era). One of those cool guys came to the forum, gave a bunch of advice, posted proof and made some criticisms to the gll strategy... and he got shit for it.
I've only seen a handful of guys fuck legit hot SKANKS from cold approach. They live in huge megacities, with PERFECT logistics, they approach very high volume, like VERY, high, not 30/week like Chris suggests, but they immerse themselves in hudge stations for hours and approach 100+ girls 5 days a week. So really 10x+ the volume of Chris. And they are PUSHY, meaning they can milk an interaction and get a contact exchange or an ID (instant date) just by asking 20x times instead of ejecting. Also, they are dating and fucking girls the same day, since an overwhelming majority of the contacts and up ghosting.
I don't think Chris was disingenous at all, if you read ALL of the posts of this site, he says that most of his lays came from the party scene, not cold approach. But for some reason, cold approach and online dating became the focus of this site. Maybe that's because the self improvement crowd is naturally individualistic, and cold approach is easier to teach.
To sum this up, this is the real scenario:
1) Invest a bunch of money on a good camera or photographer, pay for boosts, invest some time on swiping and messaging tons of girls (maybe you can outsource this)
2) Move to a 3 million+ city and approach dozens of girls daily on busy streets, malls and train stations. Be willing to make a ton of work, to deal with varying amounts of approach anxiety during the first months and make drastic changes in your character. You must be comfortable with being an asshole, pushing through Nos, going against the political correctness etc. Be ready to face angry boyfriends/dads/brothers/friendzoned guys on ocassion. I've got close to getting into a fight. Some guys I know gut knives pulled at them. Some even got guns flashed on their faces (this is probably if you live in Texas or Florida. In Europe, Japan, etc your mostly safe). You will get kicked out of places, you may get called by cops or security guards. (if this happens to you, run, don't talk to them). You may get a reputation and a reddit or twitter thread a started with your face on it if you do this shit to often on a close environment like an university campus.
Cold approach is the toughest method of all. I really wouldn't advice this unless you're the type of guy that has to prove something to himself.
3) Party scene/social circle. Probably the easiest once you get your foot on the door, but it has a high barrier to entry. It's not just about meeting people or making "friends". It's about making connections with key actors in the scene that will invite you to afterparties, etc. The downside is, you may have to compromise your values and spend time with people you don't care in order to keep your place in that circle alive. Lots of people there do drugs, which may conflict some guys.
Either way you have to pay a price.
This post made me laugh my ass off. I personally second a lot of your ideas here. I moved around a lot and unfortunately hated the in crowd at my university because they were a bunch of preppy cunts. I should have probably been nicer. But I've had shit like my dad leaving, tons of street fights and moving across the globe as a teen so plenty of fucking chips on my shoulder.
I'd definitely say try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I've approached thousands of girls, gone out alone plenty for a decade and have a notch count in the triple digits. I've been on a bit of a bender and let myself go lately but I can usually go out and fuck hot skanks off the street corner. But there is no peace in this life. Sure its a bit of fun and a buzz but the best experiences I have are with my fuckin mates, who I'm lucky to have one or two of. We will go snowboarding and talk some mad shit and laugh our asses off.
Spending time going out, hanging with drug dealers, being in clubs makes me feel fucking empty. I like living a disciplined lifestyle now, and I've unfortunately been alone because of circumstance and myself more than necessary. If you can, make some fucking friends. Live your life, try to not be cynical and jaded.
For all this work and effort I have little to show for it. The thing I cherish the most is my friend because we see eye to eye and enjoy each others company. I wish I had more and I would reccomend it. Life isn't all about pussy maybe its easier to say from my perspective after 10 years of this shit but find some friends or do this shit with your mates.
Also I can't say I agree on cold approaching getting harder. Although things are changing in weird ways I don't fully understand yet.
In fact in May/June 2020 when I was at my peak athletically and taking some time off work, I approached something like 6-10 girls and fucked 3 or 4 of them within two weeks. Decent looking girls too.
I banged an asian baddy I saw with big ass and tits we met outside a grocery store this year. However, she totally turned me off as she was facetiming other dudes from my living room (showing off or something wtf) and was basically an instagram thot. I'd really give a lot for a good looking girl with morals, standards and character. But they are hard to find these days.
My personal problem is - well many but I'll eat clean and get in amazing shape for a year or so but I can't be around booze without smoking or doing drugs. And I'll quickly lose my edge and confidence when I'm not hitting the gym 2 hours a day etc.
This shit aint easy man tons of nuance. Like the fact I hate drugs and partying it makes me feel empty but thats how I met one of my best mates who I can travel with now.
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