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Switch your MK-677 dose to the morning as well and see how your sleep quality responds. Most guys will get crazy deep REM sleep from pre-bed dosing, then there's some guys who get the insomnia like you do. Why that is, I'm not entirely sure, but I think you should experiment with your timing and see if it changes your sleep quality. Do both the Osta and MK-677 first thing in morning empty stomach from now on.
Thanks for the tip dc7! I've been taking everything in the morning the last few days, and haven't had any bad insomnia so far. I did stay up way too late the last few nights but that was because I kept myself up working on stuff. I'll report in my later updates if I have any more problems with insomnia.
Squats: 100 kg (220 lb)
Bench: 67.5 kg (149 lb) (+2.5 kg)
Row: 55 kg (121 lb)
Overhead: 47.5 kg (104.7 lb)
Deadlift: 95 kg (209 lb)
Chin-ups: 5 kg (11 lb) (+2.5 kg)
Dips: 2.5 kg (5.5 lb)
Inclined Crunches: 10 kg (22 lb) (+5 kg)
Back Extensions: 10 kg (22 lb) (+5 kg)
Not much to report, just chugging right along. That half pound of added fat is probably because I snuck some fast food in this weekend. Still at ~7% though. Onward to more gainz!
By this point, due primarily to continued insomnia, my energy levels bottomed out and I skipped or cut short most of my workouts. The original plan was to continue the cycle for 12 weeks, but I have decided to end it after six weeks, and do another six week cycle some time in the near future. Next post is a summary and discussion about cutting it short.
Now some of that is surely water weight, but either way, that is incredible. Ostarine and MK-677 performed excellently with what they were supposed to do: promote muscle growth while keeping body fat low. I basically maintained the same BF% while putting on more muscle than what I put on "naturally" while working with a personal trainer over five months. Also, I didn't have any noticeable side effects that suggested suppressed testosterone or increased estrogen. No libido loss or erectile dysfunction, no gyno, etc.
That is the good. Now onto the bad.
Pretty much immediately after starting to take ostarine, and several days before I got the MK-677, I started having severe insomnia problems. I'm generally not a good sleeper and often have trouble getting enough sleep, but the kinds of sleep trouble I had the last six weeks were unique. On 1-3 nights per week I would literally not even be able to fall asleep at all, and would stay awake the entire night. Other nights, I would fall asleep but wake up at around 2-4 AM and not be able to get back to sleep. The only nights where I got decent sleep and felt well-rested were on days where I took phenibut. When I was asleep, I had insane, vivid dreams, most of which were a lot of fun, which from what I've heard is an effect of the MK-677.
Originally this was a nuisance that made a few days of the week more stressful (the days after the totally sleepless nights). As time went on though, the sleep debt kept accumulating and I started having increasing anxiety levels, until the last two weeks of the cycle when I basically just crashed. By that point I was struggling to stay awake during the day (especially the evening) but still couldn't sleep well at night, I could barely drag myself to the gym, all my lifts (especially squats) were decreasing, and I lost motivation and desire to do anything other than sit in bed and occasionally do some coding for side projects. I stopped doing AA drills or anything else on the weekends and started having increasingly bad mood problems.
So the million dollar question is: why did I struggle so much with sleep, and what can I do on the next cycle to mitigate this? First, I should say, was it all worth it? Well, the results (see above) were spectacular, and if I can recover and get back to normal in a week or two, yes it was worth it, though it certainly took its toll on me. Hopefully it won't take long.
First, some context. The last few months I was gradually increasing my caffeine intake to a pretty ridiculous level (especially for me, since I'm really sensitive to it), and on the third week of the cycle I severely cut back to just one shot of espresso first thing in the morning. On the fourth week, I completely cut out caffeine. I've had to do this before, and that probably contributed a lot to the sheer exhaustion I had the last two weeks. I think I push myself into adrenal fatigue and it takes me a few weeks of no stimulants to get back to normal. This coincided with the cycle, and the initial high caffeine consumption definitely messed with my sleep, but it was still a sudden and dramatic worsening of my sleep after I started taking ostarine (only trouble I was having before that was occasionally not wanting to go to sleep early enough). I have full proof now that I need to limit or just avoid caffeine so when I do the next cycle this won't be interfering.
Near the end of the fourth week, I took a 24-hour saliva cortisol test (at four different times throughout the day to determine the cortisol rhythm; this is the best way to assess adrenal fatigue). When I got the results back, I wasn't too surprised: I was off the charts, wayyy too high. I've been "wired and tired" for a while now. That assured me I should be taking steps to lower, not raise, my cortisol, and certain supplements (like phosphatidyl serine) help a lot with that. This was probably the underlying root cause of the insomnia. Then the question is: why was my cortisol so high? Well, I've been stressed out at work and not spending enough time being social or having fun, but that's been pretty typical for me. I didn't do a cortisol test pre-cycle, but I felt like the high-cortisol symptoms really came out once I started the cycle.
I have a theory as to why the ostarine may have raised my cortisol even higher and messed with my sleep so much:
I may have been under-eating for the entire cycle.
As my results show, I packed on a huge amount of weight, and while some of it was probably water, it definitely wasn't fat. And even if it was, this was way more weight gain, and I mean total weight gain, than what I was experiencing last fall when I was eating 4000 calories per day. During this cycle, I was trying to get 3000 calories per day, and honestly I probably undershot that target more often than I overshot it. For some weeks, I actually got leaner (and I'm already at pretty low BF). What this suggests is that the stack really pushed my body to store the food I ate as extra mass. Which means it wasn't available for fuel. On top of that, I was staying pretty low-carb. A few days a week I would "cheat" and maybe get up to 150-200g of carbs, but on most days I was probably in the 80-100g range. A lot of what I experienced (anxiety, nervousness, shakiness, insomnia) are all symptoms of hypoglycemia. Cortisol is a mechanism the body uses to raise blood sugar. I was definitely hungrier while on the cycle, but honestly I was so paranoid about putting on fat I never let myself shovel the food in or eat carbs regularly. I also didn't follow the common advice to eat frequently. I would tend to eat 3 big meals and 1-2 snacks, instead of 6+ meals in a day. Why wasn't I experiencing extreme hunger? I don't know, I've been burning kratom most days and may not have noticed. Frankly I'm not much of a big eater anyways, and eating 4000 calories/day last year was actually a challenge for me.
Additionally, the biggest lift of them all, the squats, really started to suffer for the last half of the cycle. I noticed my quads were sore all the time and I would get significant muscle burn just by squatting the bar, and my 5x5 weight started decreasing. This is another suggestion I just wasn't eating enough. I'm not sure how this relates, but I also increasingly struggled with flexibility on my squats. I keep forgetting to foam-roll and stretch every night, but that became a bigger and bigger issue for the last few weeks. Not sure how that's impacted by nutrition.
This is just a hypothesis. I have no idea if it's true or even valid reasoning. Experimental data is what really counts here, so on my next cycle, I'm going to target 4000 calories/day with a higher carb count and see how that changes things.
That's all I have for this one. Now I'm just excited to sleep like a fucking baby for the next couple of weeks (while still lifting as much as I can of course, don't wanna lose any of this progress) and reclaim my sanity. I immediately began 3x daily RED-PCT while I will do for 4-6 weeks.
I am currently taking MK-677 only (no ostarine) but I have had a somewhat different experience than you. I have very similar stats to you but the key difference is that I have Asian genetics (so I don't worry about gaining high fat) and I am 5'10. I am by definition "a hard-gainer". Struggling for years to break the 144bs plateau, I went from 144 to 150lbs in roughly 2 weeks and I've been working my ass off eating and going to the gym at least 3 times a week. I work 40 hours a week plus I go out 5x a week (I live in Vegas) so I am working on pickup as my main focus. In life, you only have a finite amount of time so it is best to focus all your energy on 1-2 things rather than half-ass all the things in your life (ex: gym for me currently). I currently only take MK-677 5x a week. I take it Mon-Fri and then take Sat/Sun off, then repeat. I heard that this is the optimal dosing for the product because your body will adjust to the GH pulses. Personally, I never took it 7 days in a row so I can't tell you the results otherwise but so far, the results are promising.
In terms of appetite, I have never felt this kind of hunger in my life. Usually, when I wake up the morning, I don't feel too hungry and I need to get my day going for about 30min to an hr until my hunger kicks in. However, ever since starting MK-677, I feel like I've been starving for days the moment I get up. That being said, I find that with each meal, I still eat roughly the same before MK-677 HOWEVER, my body digests food a lot faster and I can put more food throughout the day versus eating more food per sitting.
In terms of sleeping, I take MK-677 before bed time because I hate the after-taste of MK-677 and I rather sleep on it then have that taste in my mouth all day. I find sleeping-wise, my sleeping isn't that much different. I do drink caffeine, however, I drink ONLY green tea. My recommendation is to only drink that as coffee cause huge peaks and crashes throughout the day. I personally hate hot drinks especially during the summer, so I usually make the tea before hand and put it in the fridge in a jug. Try that and it might help with your insomnia.
In my opinion, it is best to do one product at a time. If you add Katom, Phenibut and all those other supplements. It will clash with your main supplement. On paper, it may not but each person's body reacts differently and you must experiment and see the reactions for yourself in order to make a proper judgement call. Instead, try implementing only product at a time and do that for multiple days for 1-3 weeks at a time. RECORD your reactions and observations. There is no way to remember everything that happens everyday and when you journal, your end up writing down more detail that isn't important at the moment but ends up becoming key facts that make or break your final judgement calls.
Anyways, I'm tired of writing but if you have any other concerns/questions about MK-677, I'll take a look when I have time.
Hey man I just joined good looking loser. always have read the forums and etc for a while but for some reason never joined but i finnally did! wohoo lol I was wondering for research purposes only of course, what brand of osta and mk-677 did you get? ive been looking for a while but just have a hard time deciding where to buy it at. i have a ver similar body to you so was thinking of doing those two together to try and yield similar results.
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