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So I found this site through More Plates More Dates, so here's a plug for that. Derek seems down to earth and his old stuff hypes this site up a lot, so thats fun.
I've been quietly doing the drills the past two months, I pretty much just finished day 26. I will repeat this day though: I've spent many hours over many days just trying to get 10! I've been keeping a hand written log for each of the days so far and I've been following the consensus COVID advice on this thread to skip the physical drills (not to mention that all bars & clubs are closed here, so forget about those drills). Its a bummer: the physical stuff I think is where I think I need the most work in general.
My pace is fairly slow overall, I definitely can't go out daily and definitely don't make the numbers most time I go out. My day job is very flexible compared to most (work from home, I generally can work whatever times I want), but I still manage a pace of once every 2 days or so because it gets dark really early here (I live in Canada, its dark as of 4:30).
Anyway, I joined because the other user going through these drills really motivated me and the drills have had a big impact on me so I wanted to give back.
Anyway, heres my log of Day 26:
I couldn't do it. I went out, walked around, but couldn't find the balls to do it.
I did 2 girls today. I was shocked on how well it went when I did them. First girl got it right away, no repeat questions or anything. Second girl was... dumb or something. Didn't say a word besides "I can't think of anything to say". Super cute purple hair though. Went to end of drill.
I don't know why I was super picky today on who I started it on. tomorrow I need to be less picky to get it done. First rep is usally the hardest for me.
I did 5 girls today. 2 girls just left immediately (does this count?) upon hearing the question. Not bad responses just walked away (I'm too busy and just walked on by, barely stopped). I'm overall happy with my performance though. I still get the approach fear but its much better than before: I could barely do the suspenders drill due to crippling fear but now its much better.
Did 0 girls. Was bummed out b/c some girl I was dating didn't work out. I don't know why it affected me so much but it did. That angry feeling when it doesn't work out is why I'm here (lack of options).
I did 2 today. One old lady responded oddly, had to go to end of drill but I let her tell me her job instead (I didn't want to push the daddy thing because she's old, for all I know her dad is dead). Other girl just walked away, didn't stop, just said she was too busy or some shit. Since the new lockdown restrictions and the end of the vacation, my normal spots are pretty much ghost towns now, so I'm going to try a new spot tomorrow.
I did 2 today. First girl went to end of drill, smiling the whole time. The other girl, I started the drill (legit I just said "were going to play a game") then a total random bystander lady got into my conversation in the way and told me to stop talking to the girl. I was dumbfounded, first time that's happened to me ever. I just said "ok bye" and walked away.
I will retry day 26, but for day 27, there is a physical component. I'm not sure if I should attempt it or leave it for later. New lockdown restrictions we're imposed today... up here everything is already closed (malls closed, shops closed, no gatherings (even 1 person) allowed, only grocery stores and take out food opened). New restrictions adding a curfew as of Saturday.
Thanks Manganiello, yep I'm in Montreal. Hot as fuck and everyone still stupidly worried about covid even though everyone and their grandma is vaccinated.
Anyway, I dropped off the radar here, at the time I didn't feel comfortable sharing this journey with the world (as stupid as it sounds now) and I've been keeping my AA logs in written form this whole time. Anyway long story short of my AA program, I realize I was a big fucking prude, it took me over a month to even mummer to a girl "your cute" even if there was no physical way for her to hear my words. I can't believe I'm saying this but it was easier to do "Who is your daddy and what does he do" than tell a girl she's cute. Still hard. Still can't tell a girl she's hot/sexy/etc. Eventually, I completed all daytime drills upto day 46, except for day 44/45 and nighttime & phsyical drills. Anyway, we're here now.
I've got to the point now where I can execute a pretty simple opener (hey thought you were cute wanted to say hi, handshake, tell me what your up to, eventually get a number after a few minute convo). Mostly in the streets I feel comfortable doing it, mainly on girls passing by, but I do find myself being able to hit on girls sitting/standing around/etc (not consistently though). Malls and most indoor public places are still masks so I don't go there much. I haven't worked on any night game and honestly it shows (I feel really nervous approaching after dark, let alone even hope to approach at bars and stuff). Also I need to work on my French.
I've collected a 5-10 numbers over the course of a month, many of those I didn't call at first (I didn't want to have outcome dependence on collecting numbers, and I wanted to prove to myself that I actually can collect numbers and its not just a fluke). I actually landed my first date last week from cold approach, and it went well for me (I already deleted her number, I don't think she's interested, but I kissed her and just straight up held her hand which is more than even I thought I could do... I used to go multiple dates without making a single advance!). Only number I actually texted back for what its worth though.
Anyway after that high point, I find myself frustrated. I'm not sure if I'm in the right direction given there's no more structure the same way AA program was structured. Anyway, there's a few things on my mind here:
1) I only approach girls I find cute. I don't want to lie to girls and tell them their cute even if I don't think they are. But I don't have tonnes of targets that fit my range. Really hot girls are still a bit of a struggle (and quite demotivating, I get blown off almost consistently, and I want those really hot girls), and ugly girls/fat girls/old people/really young people/etc I don't approach. I'm not sure though, am I being too picky here? If I lower my standards, how can I trick myself to liking her? Or should I higher my standards and work on hitting the hottest chicks?
2) I get really nervous talking to girls which screws up my performance. I don't know if this makes sense, but I feel like I have to entertain them/please them. Leads to me having a hard time opening up about myself (hobbies,etc). I also have a hard time joking and laughing because I'm so nervous, which screws up interactions/dates/etc. It also screws up my approaching, I sometimes feel like "oh I don't want to bother them they're in the middle of doing XYZ" or whatever. I think I'm a people pleaser. I don't know how to work on that specifically, is it just talk to more girls?
3) I had many days where I just strike out, no numbers or interested girls and nothing but bad reactions. When I was doing AA I didn't have the outcome dependence so I could manage it. Now I'm out with a goal, I find myself disappointed when I don't get numbers and get bad reactions. Is this something that just passes with experience/time or am I doing something wrong?
4) My Tinder/online dating game sucks. I've tried many pictures and all sorts of different posed/styles and I don't get any matches at all honestly. I'd guess I'm pretty damn ugly. Maybe good enough for cold approach but not online dating. My general lack of success on online dating pushed me to cold approach FWIW. I recently bought a DSLR and good lens, but I don't really think that helped (I uploaded some photos yesterday, no real matches sofar). I'm don't know if my expectations are too high or I'm just doing something wrong. No matches in 24 hours I think is a sign I'm doing something wrong here.
5) I find I only make progress when I'm consistently approaching for multiple days in a row, which I find hard to make work. I only can make it out about 3-4 times a week and seldomly multiple days in a row (I find I make the most progress on back-to-back days).
Friends are making plans now on weekend afternoons & weekday nights which is taking away from my prime days for making progress. And my job usually eats my afternoons (I have a lot of flexibility here, but I don't want to let my work performance slip too much either). Any tips for managing all of this? Do any of you guys do approaches in the mornings (I'm not at all a morning person)? Does cold approach work at night (I've tried it a bit, I'm not sure if its me being uncomfortable thats cock blocking me)? Or should I push these other commitments off?
For what its worth, cold approach has helped my social anxiety immensely to the point now where I think the people I associate with actually want to see me more than they did before and they're asking to see me. At least I can carry conversations forward in ways I was always too self conscious to do before. For what that's worth.
If you read this wall of text, seriously thank you. Cold approach is the hardest thing I've ever done (and I'm a fucking Engineer) and I've had to come face to face with so much about myself. I'm not the same person I was last year, I feel like a fucking man now. So many people judge this shit, I bought into that bullshit too for many years, but holy fuck you guys are heros.
Went out today, got 1 number. I've been reading the KillYourInnerLoser website and not sure where I came across it but asking the "are you single?" question right after the initial approach is gold. Out of the 5-6 approaches I did in about an hour, most lasted 20 seconds thanks to this question rather than minutes, etc. I have a bad habit of talking too much with the girl before asking for the number so this really cuts the bullshit and frustration out of it. Not sure if I'm missing "on the fence" girls by doing this or something, but at least it gets the BS out of the way.
So I'm going to use this as a post AA program log. I have too many thoughts now to summarize into a few words by hand.
So turns out the girl I got the number of previously is a Youtuber with over half a million subscribers and a lot hotter than I remember. Tentatively scheduled date for Sunday. We'll see whether she flakes or not. I had to propose three different times before she responded with a proposed day that works for her. I'm legit not expecting anything out of this one. Holy fuck I'm outta my league on this one.
Went out today and yesterday. Yesterday was a bust, ton of AA, had a really hard time approaching. Took some advice from KillYourInnerLoser, maybe it was one of the recent videos or the Tinder guide, and I picked up a necklace. I'm going to 3D print some charms for it (I own a 3D printer, yes I'm a dork and I own it lol). I just have to figure out how to mount the charm to the necklace.
Went out today, first girl I approached no problem & was told she has boyfriend. Didn't even have to ask the single part either. Then I started hitting more public places (downtown St. Catherine Montreal) and the AA came right back and I was super nervous. I spent a good half an hour walking talking to nobody. I find I get really fucking nervous around crowds of people for some reason. I don't know why. The only way I'm able to partially overcome that is to hit a low point, like really fucking pissed off at myself, and basically have a "fuck it" moment before I can even partially do it. Even then the AA comes right back. I let so many girls go in a row I was so pissed.
I partially hit that low point, approached a girl in a semi public place (St. Catherine Montreal downtown, there were a few people around but not like rush hour packed either...). She was REALLY into me, like holy shit. Immediately giggling, laughing at everything I said, twirling her hair, mimicked my body language, everything. I have a hard time reading this kind of stuff but wow was it obvious. So I took her number, but she didn't want to leave, so I took her for a walk too. I held her hand, we walked to a coffee shop and she paid for my drink... I tried putting my arm around her neck before she paid for my drink as we were entering the place, she told me whoa your going to fast, so I just chilled out and talked with her for like an hour.
The date went OK, better than my first I was a little bit less nervous. But I sort of ran out of things to say and I started getting nervous. It sort of started to feel a bit like an interview too. I get nervous when there are lulls in the conversation and end up filling with weird conversation that I instantly regret. I talked more about my interests this time and that helped. I also took a seat across the table from her rather than next to her, which I regret as I wasn't able to hold her hand or anything.
I was later able to put my arm around her as I walked her back to the metro (I offered her a lift but she declined, I didn't want to push that issue, I wouldn't take a ride from someone I just met either lol), she was still laughing but not as much. I chickened out on kissing her... she seemed a bit resistant to holding hands and arm around her. I'm not sure if I was reading too much into it or not. I got the impression the date got a little cold, but I really don't know if I'm reading into it too much. To be honest, she was a bit resistant to physical advances all throughout and that didn't really change throughout the date.
The too fast remark thing also threw me off. Its not the first time I got the fast remark, I'm not sure if that's a good thing (because I'm pushing the limits fast) or a bad thing (because I'm going to fast or something).
One thing worth noting is that I let slip a bit about my dating life goals and stuff. I told her about my moto "Get Comfortable Being Uncomfortable" (stole it from Jeff Cavalere on Youtube), which I apply to dating and the gym, and those sort of life goals and she responded really well to that. We had a surprising amount in common. I even accidentally let slip that I date other people and she had a neutral reaction. I don't know if I should be honest and upfront with my passion towards my dating life. I'm extremely fucking passionate about improving my dating life right now and that slips through in the conversations with girls or not. My other hobbies like guitar playing and weight lifting are obviously not a problem though.
One thing I have an issue with is maintaining eye contact. I get really nervous doing that. I held it a bit more than usual. I wanted to tell her shes got beautiful eyes n stare into it but you (yeah yeah call me a romantic, I'm a sucker for shit like that whatever), but I chickened out. Does it matter?
I don't have a place downtown and still live in my parents basement, otherwise I would have asked her over. I saved a shitload of money living here to become a property owner. I'm going to contact a real estate agent tomorrow, I'm buying a condo within walking distance of downtown.
To be honest I'm shocking myself how physical I can be. I might, just by virtue of cold approach, have that figured out. I just don't know if my verbal speaking game and eye contact is up to speed.
chocolate wrote: If you read this wall of text, seriously thank you. Cold approach is the hardest thing I've ever done (and I'm a fucking Engineer) and I've had to come face to face with so much about myself. I'm not the same person I was last year, I feel like a fucking man now. So many people judge this shit, I bought into that bullshit too for many years, but holy fuck you guys are heros.
YOU are a hero for finishing this program. HUGE!!! I don't know much about you but given that you write about your social anxiety and that you are an Engineer (I'm gonna go after the stereotype, nothing bad intended), that is even more impressive.
I am replying late but I hope you still receive the message. I see you have already started a thread on KYIL so I'll see you over there as well.
To many of your questions, I don't have replies since I am not at that point yet. But some:
For me, a huge driver for approaching girls and for approaching a wider variety of girls is simply being horny. I'm not an adherent to the whole nofap thing but masturbating less frequently will help keep up your sex drive and find more women attractive. Quitting porn is crucial though imo so if you haven't, do it. I haven't checked out the stuff myself but I have repeatedly seen these two sites referenced:
2. "I sometimes feel like "oh I don't want to bother them they're in the middle of doing XYZ" or whatever. I think I'm a people pleaser. I don't know how to work on that specifically, is it just talk to more girls?"
The solution is exposure to inconveniencing people and especially girls. Do it, do it again, do it again. Purposely think in your mind that it is OK to inconvenience people. To some degree, it might even help to maliciously focus on the inconveniencing part. Try to be a bit of a dick and be proud of it.
Create your own challenges. Like inconveniencing 10 chicks in a day. Approach girls with headphones, girls talking on phones, girls reading, girls sitting on chairs of a restaurant in the open air, girls with their mom, girls with their family, girls with a guy who might be their boyfriend, girls that are running, girls riding on bikes. The opportunities are endless
Truthfully, no one cares about it. If the people are really inconvenienced and uncomfortable with it, they will tell you about it and then you can leave. Assuming that they have something against it is sabotaging yourself.
4. My Tinder game also sucks so far, but the feedback from the KYIL guys has helped. Reading Andys Guide also. For example I never seriously considered using TInder Gold or boosts, but with them I at least get a few matches. Tinder is pay to play unless you look really good, that is the simple truth.
- "Does cold approach work at night (I've tried it a bit, I'm not sure if its me being uncomfortable thats cock blocking me)?"
According to Toast, it is harder at night because much more aggressive stuff is required to stand out.
Last, one piece of advice not related to your question: Finish the physical and nighttime drills of the program up to Day 46. They are in the program for a reason. They are worth it. And possible. I have done every single drill up to day 38 now. High-fives, shoulder-tapping, arm-grabbing. By now, Covid is a mere excuse. Go get it. You could for example alternate days with real approaches and the days you skipped. It will make you more confident and aggressive. You mentioned in a newer post that you had success in becoming physical quickly on a date. Awesome. Imagine how good you can become at that after doing these drills and maybe even trying some from week 7 and 8.
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I didn't think the "Get Hung" guide would have girls eyeing my bulge. It did.
I didn't think that your exercise and diet advice would have girls checking me out. It did.
I DEFINITELY didn't think that your hair-loss prevention would fix my hairline. Not in a billion years. It mother fucking did. You saved me a crazy amount of time, a ton of money, unnecessary pain, and destroyed my #1 source of anxiety. DESTROYED IT.
Kratom is next!
To anyone reading this, follow through, read this material, APPLY this material, and enjoy life.