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I might have to check out that guys logs, it would be nice to know how other shy people persevered.
Okay good, it makes sense to me that random convos would be started visually a lot of the time. I understand how discussions change once you get to know someone.
That's good to know about the employment thing but umm....won't most girls realize I'm not serious about dating if I don't have a job?
Like, in Chris's guide he mentions that many guys get laid because they have built up a relationship with a girl over many dates.
Well, do you really feel like women would be willing to keep going on dates with someone unemployed?
I'm totally fine with dating without a job, I just don't want to get shot down by a bunch of potential dates.
I'm not trying to make excuses Roger....I'm seriously not. I just don't see how a woman would stick around after she learns:
-no car. -no job. -no house for sex. -speech issues.
I have good qualities too, like a muscular build and youthful face....but women are pretty picky, they want to date someone 'worthy'.
15 months won't mean anything if I don't get any dates during this time. I live in a town of like 10k people. A twenty minute drive puts me into a major city of 180k.
I don't have dating apps quite yet. I'm waiting for a bunch of fashionable clothes to get shipped to me. In 1 week, I'll put on those clothes and hit up the town with my professional camera. Going to make it my mission to take the highest quality photos of my life.
After that, It's simply a matter of getting to a dentist and getting one of my teeth patched up. Doesn't look great, and I want to cover it with a veneer.
I'll be good to go after all of that. I'm extremely eager, every fiber of my being is screaming at me to act. Act now. Act fast.
Again, the only person I've seen all day is the tanning employee. This employee is the hardest one to talk to because the routine I have set up over two months has conditioned her to be short with me. The moment she sees me she says "you're all ready to tan". No small talk.
This girl always drinks NOS energy drink. I ALWAYS see her with one on her desk. I've thought about making a joke about this for awhile now and finally decided to go through with it today. It was a failure and a success both.
After tanning, I headed towards the exit. After turning a corner, the employee is standing right there and I have just seconds to decide if I'm going to say anything without coming off as strange. We both say "have a nice day" as per usual.
Then I looked at her desk and of course.....she was drinking a completely different energy drink today! I felt so thrown off guard. It instantly made me lose confidence in my joke telling capabilities. (I'm hilarious once I'm comfortable with someone, jokes come easy).
I decided in that moment that I was still going to go for it though.
So I said: "Hey, is that a rockstar?"
She had to shut her music off....which made the situation higher pressure in my eyes. Bad start.
Her: "Yeah. they are good."
Me: "Yeah I love those, they taste so good.....but I haven't had any in a long time....not since the accident."
She had a confused look on her face, which made me lose even more confidence.
She kept staring for a couple of seconds, her eyes told me "what do mean"?
Me: "Yeah, a long time ago I walked into a gas station and accidentally bought one".
After a second or two, she awkwardly laughed and said "good one". I could tell she either didn't fully understand the joke or she didn't understand me/my delivery.
My delivery was pretty crappy honestly. I could have made that joke a lot smoother with different phrasing.
I feel so stuck honestly. I struggle so hard just trying to sound normal and not put my foot in my mouth. These convos keep sucking because they are forced, they aren't natural convos. I literally feel like everyday I'm auditioning for impractical jokers. Just doing bizarre stuff in public for the sake of coming out of my shell.
Any advice Roger, for articulation? Short of speech therapy, do you know a way I can learn how to speak more articulated? My biggest problem at the moment seems to be the basic way words flow from my mouth.
I'm a clunky, hesitant speaker. I stammer some times if I feel the pressure is really high. There is nothing smooth about my voice. I pause at strange times and I phrase sentences in unusual ways to try to...."help people" understand me better.
It didn't used to be like this. This terrible speaking style has developed from years of talking to my dad. He interrupts me constantly. He talks over me and louder than me at most times. He's a good guy and he really doesn't mean to be doing this to me, but he is.
He's been destroying my speaking abilities over the last 10-15 years.
I've tried talking to him about it... but being a pot-head he quickly forgets that I would appreciate slow conversations where we both take our turns.
#1. Both for getting laid and for improving your social skills, it sounds like the most important thing for you to do is move out of your dad's place.
For sure, you don't need your own place, but it definitely helps. On the speech skills side, I'd recommend you get a roommate or few and then you'll have guaranteed daily convo practice.
The other alternative is to not let your dad interrupt you. That requires mental toughness and depending on your dynamic, possibly getting kicked out.
But you pointed out yourself that living with your dad is reinforcing a stuttering speech. Either overcome your current situation or change the situation.
Anyway, it's great you're getting outside every day and talking to someone. 3 days to go, 3 more people to talk to.
In the AA program there's the concept of "getting in there." Basically, the longer you think about talking to someone but waiting the more the anxiety grows. So next time (whether it's the tanning girl again or if you go to the grocery store, wherever) try getting social the moment you see someone. Then you'll also pick up some social momentum and the 2nd or 3rd person you talk to you might be a bit smoother.
About the girls dating without a job, yeah I forgot about the going 5 dates to lose your vcard thing. Nothing wrong with that, that's what I did. But yeah I was more of picturing you hooking up with a girl on the first or second date. No reason you can't either.
Back to your point about girls not wanting to go on dates with a guy with no job, dude on here Terminator hasn't had a job for like 5+ years but he's banged like 40 girls at this point. And he's seen girls definitely 5+ times.
So no excuses. If you're convinced you need to have a job, get a job. Otherwise, just be straight up and explain why you don't have one like you've been mentioning here: you don't need one right now. You can even tell girls you're "retired" if you want like GLL (I can't find that video now he might've taken it down).
Lol right, I know my dad isn't healthy for me. I know living with him is causing me extreme social and mental issues. I definitely plan on getting a job, saving up and moving to Portland Oregon relatively soon. Portland is loaded with chicks. But in the meantime Roger....I NEED TO GET LAID. This issue has dictated my entire life and I need to focus everything on it.
I can't do male roommates because I've had one in the past that got high on meth and physically assaulted me with a metal pole. Trust issues now.
Yeah, I find it difficult to be social on the spot because it's hard to think of relevant topics off the top of my head. I usually have some kind of topic pre-loaded. I know I need to change that.
Sooooo yeah, that would be great if I could sleep with a girl in 1-2 dates but I don't know how that's possible. I'm not sexually aggressive enough.
Chris's guide mentions just getting to know them, which may lead to sex.
I don't know how to expedite sex.
So there it is. I'm stuck in limbo it feels. If I could just sleep with one girl, I could focus in life and achieve my goals without all of this heavy baggage.
15 months. 1 girl. Small town. Has to be possible.
I spoke to a total of 4 people today. 2 of which were just strangers in passing, very basic easy exchanges....not real convos.
Then I went tanning. After saying hi, I went up to her and asked her about canceling my tanning membership.
(I've been deciding to cancel this membership for a few days now).
I've been hesitant about canceling because tanning has almost become therapeutic....the daily convos anyway. Tanning itself is a hassle. Plus, I only tan now so I can look good in pictures.
Fun story actually....I started this tanning membership as a slow form of suicide. Prior to tanning, I was reading up on how tanning gives you skin cancer. I learned that excessive tanning, even short periods of it; will lead to cancer. I tanned everyday for 1.5 months, with plans on tanning every single day for 12 months. This has been my second suicide attempt in life so far. (The first one, involved my head and a set of train tracks).
Then I discovered GLL and my life changed forever.
Off topic I know, getting back to the convos.
The salon lady was super knowledgeable about the packages and protocol for canceling. We discussed all the ins and outs at good length. The entire conversation flowed like water and I didn't make a fool of myself. Very proud of myself. This is the way I should always feel in Convos.
Then I headed over to the marijuana dispensary. (Yup....stoner).
I happened to be helped by the exact same cashier that talked to me the week before about Bob Ross. Out of anyone in this small town, I've had the best convos with her.
She's just so easy to talk to, and she makes me feel like my words actually matter.
Now, I'm not interested in this girl at all sexually. She weighs considerably more than I do. She has a somewhat cute face, but I couldn't ever see myself dating her. She would be cool to chill with though.
All I asked her is if she has any holiday plans. That was enough to prompt her to mention she will probably go skiing this year. Intrigued by this info, I asked where she goes to ski.
She told me she goes to Mt. Hood (near Portland), which got me talking a good deal. I also shared my "passion" for hiking. Which....is a pretty easy "passion" when you live in Oregon. Everyone does it.
Now....if only I could get a girl I'm interested in to talk to me like she does.
I just need to find a girl who's really hot but used to be overweight, that way she'll talk to me like other overweight women do. Lol. Just kidding.
I’ve lurked your log a bit but didn’t really have anything to say quite yet
First off it’s great that you’re putting solid effort into having conversations with people in public because even for a lot of “normal” folks that’s not the easiest thing to do. Keep at it for a while and you’ll probably notice it getting easier.
One thing that might help with the feelings of awkwardness is to give yourself a quick check while the other person is talking to see if you’re tense anywhere and try to slack that part of your body out. For me I’ve learned it’s my shoulders and knees that usually lock up first and relaxing them helps a lot.
For speech there’s an app called Speeko that you might want to look into. It’s a paid app for voice habit training and I haven’t done a deep dive into it but it seems intuitive. If this is a priority setback for you it may help.
Finally I just wanted to touch on this tidbit:
“ Sooooo yeah, that would be great if I could sleep with a girl in 1-2 dates but I don't know how that's possible. I'm not sexually aggressive enough.
Chris's guide mentions just getting to know them, which may lead to sex.
I don't know how to expedite sex.”
You actually identified the exact problem there
You’re not sexually aggressive enough
I’d recommend you give yourself 3-6 dates worth of space where your main goal is just to develop a feel for physical escalation.
You can start as light as you want. In fact your light touches are what’s going to let you know if she’s receptive to more later on.
- Hand on her shoulder when asking her a question
- Playful push (make sure you’re moving *your* body away and not pushing her though. Lean in and let the momentum push you back out)
- A few fingers on her wrist while you’re talking
Once you’re comfortable with those and you’re in the company of a girl who’s been receptive to a few of them you can ramp it up a bit
- Play with her hair
- Hand on her knee/very low on her thigh
- Over the shoulder cuddle (don’t do what I did and hang out in this one too long)
- Palms together (kinda like if you were comparing hand sizes, she’ll usually be like “what are you doing” after a minute, to which you can be like “this” and wrap your fingers to hold her hand)
From there you can go for a makeout and try some more sexual touches if it goes on for a bit:
- Hand on her inner thigh
- Rub her chest above her tits
- Light touches on her neck etc etc
Assuming you’re somewhere sex can happen I always try to get her into a position that feels sexual. Lean her into missionary position while making out. Or lay back and pull her in lightly to sit on top of you. Make out with her in like this. Go for neck kisses, earlobes, top of her chest. Get under her shirt just a bit - rub her back, put a hand on her hip, etc.
Then lead her to your bed or at least your room. Make out a little more and work on getting those clothes off. Don’t forget to be a gentleman and wear her thighs like earmuffs before you fuck.
I didn’t mean to write a whole guide here but that’s how you do it. Set aside your next few dates to work on that. Go as far as you’re able to assuming, and I can’t stress this enough, that she’s receptive to it and not locking up or turning away or giving you any strange body language
Thanks for writing me, and reading up on these logs.
I don't really tense my body up when making a fool of myself in public. It's all vocal. I can't find words at times and stammer if it's a high pressure situation. Like I'll repeat myself. Just an anxious dude but I'm getting better. I'll have to check out that paid app for speech.
Thanks for your guide and suggestions but I'm no where even close to that 'level'. I've only kissed a few girls in my life, all of them were horrible kisses. I'm not even close to confident enough with women that I could just nudge them towards sex. It will be a miracle if she agrees to a second date honestly..........
I do appreciate your advice about touching them though. Being new to dating/women, I wouldn't instinctively know to lightly touch women to subconsciously trigger sex. Sure, touch her while kissing but I wouldn't have thought about all of the ways you can 'innocently' touch women prior to kissing.
I also appreciate your advice about putting them in a sexual position while kissing. That's genius. I'll definitely have to use that someday!
Trust me man I was an absolute nervous wreck too when I started actually applying myself to GLL
(Sometimes I still am. I literally went through a stage of getting myself comfortable just being in public again this year)
I ramped myself up the same way over the course of 6 dates and ended up breaking through and banging literally half of the girls I go out with.
I’ll tell you what I wish I told myself then that might have made things a lot easier too
Give yourself permission to suck. But set yourself up with a challenge each time to go a little further than where you’re at and just go for it.
It’ll probably be awkward and clumsy at first but it’s better than nothing. And unless you try to pull off some aggressive move without warming her up first most girls will be nice about rejecting the advance. “Please don’t”, or maybe pulling away. And at that point you can chit chat with her for a minute or two to be nice and then let her know it was nice meeting her but you have to head out.
Once you get this down though you’ll be surprised at how many girls you go out with are actually down to fuck you (assuming you look good and smell nice and all that jazz)
Also - classic Chris wisdom:
She’s already fucked a guy uglier than you (or less confident in this case)
My problem with your suggestion is that I don't know what I'm doing. Period. I've never experienced women in general really. I'd love to...."push boundaries," if I knew what those boundaries were in the first place. I'm clueless.
My best bet is to just muddle through with a vague outline of Chris's guide in my noggin.
Well dang Roger, if I get anymore crazy in public I'll have my own version of impractical jokers in no time. Lol, like my interactions are already pretty bizarre in general. If I tried to outdo myself, I'd probably look like a clown.
Also....it is really hard to find people in general here. The pandemic has made this small town feel like a ghost town at times. As you noticed, all of the people I talked to are captive audiences....they don't have a choice but to talk to me. (Cashiers/employees).
I can't just keep going tanning everyday for the sake of talking to one person.
Thanks for the compliment too, being bald has changed my perspective. For the first time in my life, I have style. Dare I say, swagger.
- start a Tinder/Bumble/Hinge/ etc. account
- ask out the tanning girl. Especially if you're canceling your membership, worst thing is she says no and you feel a bit awkward if you see here around town.
- take a trip to Portland or whatever the city you said you're 20 minutes from you and do X, Y, or Z there.
Examples of X, Y, Z:
- Ask 5 random people for the time.
- give a high five to a stranger
- hold eye contact with 5 people. Do NOT be the first one to look away.
- Introduce yourself and get a handshake from a store clerk or whoever you have a nice conversation with.
Food for thought
Last thing, what are the other businesses you have in town? I imagine the hot girls work at clothing stores or restaurants. It's sort of like two different lifts, talking to repeat customers and talking to strangers. Both are useful, the second more so for AA.
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I didn't think the "Get Hung" guide would have girls eyeing my bulge. It did.
I didn't think that your exercise and diet advice would have girls checking me out. It did.
I DEFINITELY didn't think that your hair-loss prevention would fix my hairline. Not in a billion years. It mother fucking did. You saved me a crazy amount of time, a ton of money, unnecessary pain, and destroyed my #1 source of anxiety. DESTROYED IT.
Kratom is next!
To anyone reading this, follow through, read this material, APPLY this material, and enjoy life.