TOPIC: I'm killing AA for good

Let's do this.

This is day 2.

What I did today:
1. I signed the AA petition
2. I started my journal HERE.

This is my beginning to getting rid of AA for good. I have been going up to girls in the last year, but there are still moments when I am not "feeling it". BULLSHIT. If I don't kill AA, how will I then be able to escalate further? So far, it worked on far less girls than I wanted.

See for my introduction:

http://goodlookingloser.com/forums/index.php?topic=10638.0

Day 3

After listening to the day 3 audio, I made a profile on "Plenty of Fish": http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=69544696

I used Rooster's guide as good as possible. I will update my photos from time to time, also the "interest" section can maybe improve some more. I just did not want to overthink it forever and then never get started.

First question:
I changed the "about me" section a bit from the original suggestion - did not want to have Rooster's text in there word for word. Now the section has become almost like a "first date" suggestion. Is that good or bad? Any ideas to improve?

Second question:
Should I make my pictures more sexual, more social, or more fun? Which works best?

Thanks for the help and all the best.

Addition: I have messaged as many girls as I found hot. Roughly 20 maybe?

Question:
Is it worthwhile paying to upgrade my profile of PoF?

Day 4


On my way to work - I took 5x the time wherever I was. Subway, street, inside station...

Girls were friendly and helpful.

A few observations:

1. I did not have a watch with me and was on my way to work. So (a) I really had a reason to ask for the time and (b) ultimately, I had something else on my mind - getting to work. That kept asking for the time casual and made it easy.

2. The less time I left in between approaching girls, the easier it became.

3. I have this stupid limiting belief that it is bad when the woman I just asked hears that I ask someone else immediately thereafter. Feel like she will see that I have a different agenda and me asking her for the time was not genuine. Come think about it, that belief is not only not useful, but also not relevant. (a) why do I care what a stranger thinks of me and (b) I don't think people care that much about me either. They gave me the time, they don't want to marry me.

4. However, ca. 2/5 girls where very friendly. Could have continued conversation. Of course didn't. People are happy when someone talks to them.

Day 5
One day later than planned, yesterday was a major snowstorm and I stayed inside.

I did 20 sets in 20.5 minutes, then 20 sets in 12 minutes

I could have been faster had it not been for wading through the mud and traffic stops.
I approached single girls, girls in groups as well as girls with their boyfriends... In the latter case, half the girls referred to their bf, half answered directly. Almost always, the bfs stood back. Felt like I could def "pluck" the girl away if I so chose.
One major reason for me taking that long was that sometimes, a guy would walk the same direction and looked at me. Felt like he noticed that I asked several girls the same question. Then I hesitated because I did not want to get a "bad reputation". Bad excuse.

Remarkably, I had much less fear walking up to hot girls than I had walking up while a guy would notice what I was doing.

What is the limiting belief behind this?
"I can't walk up to girls and train becoming social by asking them for the time. Using girls to 'practise' - that is something we are not supposed to do."

Ok, let's dissect the emotional and logical component here.
Emotionally, I am afraid of getting a bad reputation. However, you are taking the first steps on an awesome journey. What do you care about your bullshit reputation?

Logically, there is several arguments against my fear.
1. Is asking 20+ girls for the time unusual? Yes. That is not the norm. However, so is performing breakdance in a NY subway car. You know, some people will always be haters, some people will appreciate what you are doing.
2. Is TALKING to 20+ girls unusual? No, some people talk to way more girls over the course of one day.
3. Am I hurting anyone with asking for the time? No.
4. Can the guy hurt me, e.g. could he ask the police or security (as has happened with several pick-up training groups that hit aggressively on girls within a confined space - i.e. Eaton center in downtown Toronto)? Maybe he will, but most of those guys are pussies - they would not ask the police when they can't take action to ask me. They may not even realize what's going on in the first place. And IF the police are stopping me - what did I do that was illegal? Nothing.
5. Will girls appreciate me training to get over my AA? You bet. Come summer, they will be happy that a fearless guy can properly take them to sex without wussing out.

In summary: plow through the initial anxiety. What do I care whether a guy I don't know at all thinks badly of me? Most likely this guy is a loser to begin with. If I see a guy asking girls for the time, if I see someone training to get over social anxiety, I'll applaud that guy.
Heck, kids learn how to talk and will babble off to anyone. THAT is regarded as learning. That is expected and thus no problem. But if you do EXACTLY the same as an adult, you are just violating a norm, and some people are bothered by that. Don't listen to them. If we only had those people in the world, humanity would have long seized to exist.
Btw, I already took one step against my anxiety: I held my head high and smiled at the guy who was turning around.

Good stuff bro keep up the good work

Intelligent analysis. You have the correct attitude. Very well done on "doing" girls that were with their boyfriends so early on in the program.

In regards to your point #5: A girl I dated for a while knew about me doing these drills and she said more guys should do them 'cos she could observe the positive effect they had on me. So definitely yes! Besides, many of the drills will make a lot of girls day and make them laugh and happy. (They will also creep some out badly - win some, lose some)

Thanks SammyBosco and BillyBob for the advice. I spend a lot of time dissecting my approaches because then I can identify the parts I need to work on and those that I merely need to reinforce.

It's funny - me playing the cello over more than 25 years now is a good "blueprint" of learning anything for me. I surely wish I had taken my practise sometimes more serious - couple decades back, there were kids who at age 10 had a better sound than me by far. I always thought they had more talent, but I am not so sure about it anymore. They probably had more discipline than me and practiced 3 h a day compared to my 30 mins 4x a week.

So point #1 for me is to step up the practicing to get over AA.
Point #2 is to be aware that I am tempted to break my habits after 3 weeks and then again 2 months. Very repetitive behavior. Those are the weeks I am most likely to give up. Don't know why, but those are the most critical phases. So, with the AA program, I have to be super-disciplined around weeks 3 and weeks 7 - 8. Gotta remove ALL other "non-necessary" stimulants in my life during those weeks and completely focus to get through those days.

Day 6 and 7

I condensed Days 5 - 7 a bit.

02/12/14: Day 4
02/13/14: Stayed home, no AA program
02/14/14: Day 5 complete (as posted) + 10x Time, Leave and 5 x Time, Directions, Leave (half of day 6)
02/15/14: Rest of Day 6 together with Day 7.

I did all the tasks of Day 7.

Day 7 = Day 6 with talking to the FIRST girl I see, rest is the same between both days. Thus, I basically talked to more than 5 girls for each part of the Day 7 exercises rather than FIRST finishing Day 6, THEN Day 7. Felt this was easier.

Ok... so everything went smoothly. When I asked for directions, I asked them for the post office. I thought that gets people thinking, and it did, because less and less people rely on normal USPS these days. However, "post office" is a bit of a boring location. It also leads to people just shrugging their shoulders, and when I ask them if they have been there, they just say "no". Not a good base for building a conversation later in the future. Next time I'll ask for the opera: something intriguing - or the grocery store - something everybody has been in.

Couple interesting observations.

1. I had my audio recorder on and was recording my thoughts while walking. That (a) took care a bit of my anxiety that other people may overhear me and are "weirded out". Turns out, no one really cares about what I am doing as much as I assume they do. Then (b) it made it that more easy to talk to girls, because I was already in "talkative mode". Similarly, when I talk to some dudes in between and just be social, it will be easier to ask the girls that I want to talk to. I am "warmed up"
=> Talking to everyone everywhere makes it actually easier to talk to the girls that really matter.

2. I was a bit "choosy" in which girls I approached. When I started, two girls were on their phones, so I did not go, one "girl" was over 60 years old... so I did not approach. Right after that, pretty hot mother-daughter set walked by and I asked them for the time. I did not talk to girls whom I didn't at least feel a little bit attracted to. I am not sure though that this is really useful behavior. Sure I can pick them out, but then I run into a different situation - for example, I had three groups of gorgeous girls walking by at the same time. I spun around like a robot but could not decide which one to talk to, so I let them all go by.
=> I think the secret here is to just go without looking much and trust that my subconscious sends me towards a girl that I find indeed attractive. The more I practise, the faster I become.

3. About half way into the drill, something unexpected happened: All of a sudden, I was DRAWN to girls. My "Approach Anxiety" turned into "Leaving Anxiety". I was done with the number of my drills, yet i HAD to also ask that girl over there in the corner.

I did not have that feeling of being drawn to girls all the time, but it's a good start.

Another cool experience was: when talking to a mother-girl set and asking them for directions to the post office and if they had been there, her Mom was very judgmental. In the end, I thanked them for the info, walked away and Mom pointed out that the post office was in a different direction. I just said: I know and walked on. I did not give a single fuck.

I feel I am well on my way. Some anxieties here and there, but no big problem. I feel my remaining anxiety will solve itself out once I get into the habit of approaching immediately when I see a girl. At some point, NOT approaching starts feeling weird.

Day 8

Today, I got slightly nervous just listening to the audio. Funny enough, a couple of moments later into the recording, Chris mentions that very problem If that nervousness persists, I will repeat day 4 - 7.

Here is one thing that ALWAYS makes me nervous, and I think I now know what it is - living in the suburbs and not being able to pull when gaming in NYC. I know, FAR in the future. No outcome dependence right now on the drills.

However, that is one reason that I never felt comfortable in the past when hitting on girls - it always felt that IF I wanted to pull them, it had to be their place and I'd be a guest there. So I'd lose control.
Lesson from that: check into apartments in the city and have the logistics in place once the AA program is done!
But I digress.

Did mostly do 4 - 10 approaches for each category.

Ok... asking for the time went super well.

Time and directions - I let some girls slip by. A lot actually. Crowded, I was worried that girls would hear me "hit" on other girls. Plowed through. Every time I missed an approach, I restarted counting. Eventually I got it.

"Time and directions, have you been there" and "Time and directions, have you been there, do you like it" were relatively easy. It was just the jump from asking for time to asking for time AND directions that was a bit tough and I had to plow through my nervousness.

Highlights
One of the highlights was a large group of girls and guys. I approached the hottest one, because I noticed her first - everyone in the group stopped and looked expectantly at us. Ha ha! I did my sets of questions, then everyone smiled as we parted. Awesome. Sets of more than one girl used to frighten me in the past.

Other girl with her bf, I almost touched her when I asked her. This time the bf quickly stepped in and asked what's going on - in a slightly annoyed/threatening voice. I wasn't phased. At all. When he did not know where the grocery store was, he apologized and said they were just visiting.

The cool thing here is that (a) I am asking simple questions that everyone is automatically obliged to answer and (b) I can't hesitate, I have to approach whatever is in front of me.

This means I can actually pay attention to people's reactions. It seems to me that ca. 10% of girls are really annoyed by my question, 10% are super happy to be approached, and the rest is somewhat in between.

I can observe and experience the whole situation. I wasn't aware that the program lets me do that - taking the focus away from the outcome and letting me observe and even enjoy the moment.

In the end I could ask for the time anywhere and anytime. I think this is something that I have handled now. The rest will take longer to imply, but eventually I'll be there.

One point remains - my fear of "other girls hearing me". Tomorrow, I will try to ask girls for the time directly in front of the girls I already asked. This scares me, so I have to attack that fear heads-on. Otherwise it will always linger. Oh, and in the same direction - I have to ask some girls in the subway cars, where a lot of other people can hear me.

Finally, one underlying theme for me is - I am worried about handling groups while I am walking up to them, but once I am in the group, I feel much more comfortable. I think I automatically elevate my energy level, as if I have to satisfy both girls at once , but still focus on one girl. That somehow helps.

Logically, groups should be easier than single girls. If 50% of girls aren't that fond of me, the chance that BOTH girls are that way is only 25%. Meaning - if I approach 10 groups, I will probably be more likely to get at least one phone number than if I approach 10 single girls. If the main girls is skeptical, but her friend tells her I am cool, main girl is more likely to comply.

Day 9

Today, I asked for

1. Time, then leave
2. Time, then asked if she'd ever been to Olive Garden
3. Time, Have you been to Olive Garden? Do you Like it?

Definitely repeated that sequence 5 times.

I realize that I had the sequence yesterday wrong - I had asked 4 girls for the time, then 4 girls for time and direction etc. - won't repeat it though, I think it's fine both ways.

When the girl said "I haven't been there" and I asked if she liked it, sometimes she just laughed. Pretty great. I kind a like that. Conversations that don't make sense are way more fun than conversations where everything is "normal". IU get a good laugh out of those situations and can transmit the "vibe": I am fucking with you.

I think this is important. If you tease somebody, you build up a lot of comfort without telling heavy, serious stories about how much you love your family.
Because you only tease the people that you are already comfortable with. So if you tease a stranger, the mind assumes that there is already some connection.

Or in other words, what you tell the girl when you say something that "does not make sense" is: "Life is funny, and we are in this together."

There was one other incident today - dude sitting next to me in the bus demanded I let him out and was very rude about it. He lacked respect. Initially, I had the reflex to still oblige... then I caught myself and stayed cool.
I think on the long run, learning to talk to the first girl I see also teaches me to act without thinking about it too long. Thus, I hope that I will be able to react much faster in others situations, e.g. people being rude and disrespectful to me.

Plus I have to grow a bit thicker skin. The bus "altercation" impeded my ability to talk to girls. I was too much in my head, took me a while to get the ball rolling again.

You're going at it hard. I was way more lenient on myself at this point - I was picky about my targets and didn't approach groups at this point. The reason I'm saying this is that if you go on like this you will be a master. Also if you ever feel like you're losing your motivation, it's okay to sometimes go easy on yourself. Remember it's a marathon not a sprint, you don't have to kill yourself to kill your AA.

Keep on rockin'

Day 10

Thanks Billybob! Will do my best.

Today's drills were:
Ask for the time, then leave.
Time? Do you know a movie theater around here? leave
Time? Do you know a movie theater around here? Have you seen any good movies lately?

I did this set ca. 7-8 times, on my way to work.

What went well?
- I spoke to the first girl I saw that day.
- I even walked up to a woman who was standing further away - felt weird, because why would I walk over a long distance to just ask her for the time? Did it anyway. She reacted normal.
- When I was in the subway, I realized that same woman sat across from me. I still asked the woman on my left for the time and movie theater, even though the woman across the hall might hear me. This made me really nervous, so I decided to do it anyway. My voice could have been bolder, but it's a start. I have to fight my fear of talking to a girl in front of other girls that I have just talked to.
- Added "mother-daughter-set" to the list of "scary groups" to approach.
- At the end of the routine, felt myself being "drawn in" to talking to girls, again. Cool. Maybe this can indeed become a routine for any given day? Warming up with 10 - 15 girls, losing my anxiety and then WANTING to approach more girls? That'd be awesome. Apparently possible to train towards.

What do I want to improve?
Even though I speak to the first girl that I encounter each day, still letting some girls pass by later - did not like their hairstyle or other BS excuses my brain comes up with.

How will I improve?
When I notice that I am skipping girls, will count down from 20 to 1 and then HAVE to approach, else I have to repeat the whole drill.

I notice that lately, I am starting to become quite choosy in my approaches. If the girl is not "hot enough" I will not approach. Since I still approach the hot girls indeed, it's probably ok. Still, I'd like to get into the mindset of "always taking the shot". In a bar, I might have to convince/charm a "not-so-pretty" girl that I can hit on her hot friend... so I have to also get practise in talking to girls I am not attracted to.

One other approach: I asked a girl for the time - she told me she had to run to work, still answered me -, then movie theater (still answered me), then asking her of she has seen good movies lately. She got angry, said she REALLY had to go and left.
Hm. That left me feeling a slight bit like shit. I prevented her from arriving on time. On the other hand, I had to do that at least once. 5 additional seconds won't kill her, and I have to learn to hold my frame even when the girl evades me at first. I think it's a matter of time that I calibrate more. I want to rather overdo something once than never know where my limit actually is.

Next time though when the girl is very specific, I'll let her go.

Oh, one more thing: I am starting to get messages back from girls on PoF. With one girl I may even get a date soon. Perfect. I used to be very funnyish during text game, then I ended up losing her, because I over clowned her when she was already down with meeting. Now I just message her, when she replies I tease her once and/or qualify her by asking what makes her different or asking something more specific about one of the hobbies that she lists on her profile (to make our conversation a little bit "real") - then directly asking for a meeting.

Once I have the basic structure down - pushing for the meet-up as soon as possible - can I become a little more gamey and get girls that are a bit cold "warmed up".
This illustrates pretty good what my problem is - I tried to pick-up girls without any underlying sexual aggressiveness. That made it unnecessary hard on me, and I think I lost a bunch of girls by "over gaming" without realizing at the time.
Thanks to the AA program, that anxiety/aggressiveness issue will be taken care of.